Books CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

thats fine of they want to move on and focus on younger characters. All i ask is thta Luke is shown with respect as the most powerful Jedi

 

Luke and the rest have have been at the forefront of two major wars so I feel let them have their rest. They've earned it.
The problem with the Post NJO era is that we missed 8-9 years between NJO and LOTF. The 1 or 2 years covered being DNT. We could have had hundreds of stories in that 10 years and we only have 3. I like reading about the OT generation but its past time to give them advising roles and let Jaina and the rest take over. Don't jump 5-10 years and have them in advising roles but ease them into it.

 

The problem with dismissing Luke due to age is quite simple: There's the counter-examples of Dooku and Qui-Gon.

Now are the injuries from duelling Shimmraa and Abeloth really of such sufficient force as warrant Luke's retirement? I'm sceptical.

In principle, I like the idea of Luke, Han and Leia stepping back from the stage and enjoying the results of their work but the last few series have pretty much trashed that with an utterly dysfunctional government and Jedi Order!

 

Have Dooku and Qui-Gon been in galaxy changing wars none stop for 40+ years?
Did they have to face someone like Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine, Exar Kun, Shimmra, etc on a consistent basis?
Did they have to rebuild the Jedi Order from scratch and lead it for several decades while handling divisions in the ranks and interference from the government of the day?
If they actually showed the aftermath of the NJO then the poison from Shimmra could have slowed Luke down a bit.
I don't remember the specific injures from Abeloth but didn't Luke get creamed a couple different times throughout FOTJ? How can he receive all of those injuries and keep on clicking as if nothing happened?
Jedi might be able to use the Force to heal themselves but I don't see how after all of that something won't catch up to them eventually.

 

I've always been of the mind that a force user would only get the slow wizard aging if they actually indulged in that, spent lots of time sitting around in a meditation room contemplating the force, and actively pursuing greater power in it. Things that I'd never think Luke would have a lot of time or patience for and were more suited to back when the Jedi were an ivory tower magocracy.It's the exact same issue with him being portrayed as some omni-talented force Renaissance man (a distinct thing from just being powerful).

Treating slower aging as something intrinsic to Jedi instead of being a consequence of force immersion seems to undermine the idea of the force being something that touches otherwise normal individuals to me, and pushes force users towards being distinctly superpowered people.

Besides, Luke is still fundamentally a squishy meatbag like everyone else, unless he healing trances every single little boo-boo things are gonna build up.

 

As I say, in principle, I like the notion of the big 3 being allowed to retire but I can't help but also see DN-LOTF-FOTJ as punching a lot of rather big holes in what they leave behind:

• A dysfunctional government with an inclination towards authoritarianism. The GA as depicted in DW you could expect to last for a good while, it's subsequent form? Not so much.
• The way to resolve a Jedi dispute is now the Klingon way - duel and win! Klingons are fun but Jedi they ain't.
• Krayt's turned up decades too early, if Denning was out to mess with the Legacy comics he succeeded.

It's hard to say, in the wake of all this, that they can simply retire. If that was the aim, then there should have been better planning in the Eu for this set of books, but then lack of planning kind of says it all about DN-LOTF-FOTJ doesn't it?

Tony,

I would suspect quite a few Vestara fans didn't want her to remain a Sith!

Second, I'm just waiting for the complaints over a lack of death!

 

Jedi Ben:

Exactly! If the plan was to have Luke, Leia, and Han retire, then the planning team should have ended their story with the galaxy in a period of relative peace and with no major problems on the horizon. To have the galaxy such a mess, with Abeloth and thousands of One Sith and Lost Sith roaming freely around, doesn't lend itself well to a retirement for the Big Three. Being the characters they are, they wouldn't retire if they knew that danger lurked everywhere.

If this was the planning team's idea, to push the Big Three aside while the galaxy remains in chaos, it's a lousy one that doesn't show much respect to these iconic characters. I certainly hope that Crucible isn't really as bad and as disrespectful of Luke, Leia, and Han as the spoilers suggest.

 

Why? Why does Luke ALWAYS have to be the most powerful jedi. I get that he's a great character, but why do we have to continiously limit our universe to only be as great as one character. I understand the importance of experience and knowledge in the force, but Dooku died to a more powerful, younger man. Skywalker may not have won the first time, but one day he grew strong enough to kill the old man. Luke didn't do so well against Vader either time, and there was no reason to believe that he stood a chance to the emperor while he was crying on the ground be electricuted. Let someone else be "the One" for a while, I'd love it to be Jaina, but she's getting too old to be introduced as the new face of Star Wars. So now my faith lies in young Alanna. The daughter of Caedus and the Queen mother, will be the future of the saga, sitting atop the throne of balance. We have no idea how powerful she is. She's not in Crucible, but you know it to be true.

I don't want it to happen, but what if Luke dies in a really stupid way, like he was shot in the back of the head, but just by like some guard some time, no one of significance and this was all the longest troll that Lucas has ever come up with.

 

I just thought of something, and it's practically the only thing about Mirta that would make me mad; spoilers are accepted only in this case...

In Invincible, Denning hinted that Mirta's husband, Ghes Orade, was viciously, almost mortally, wounded. Does it mention in Crucible if he's dead? Because that would be really slapping Traviss in the face after she'd just had them marry one book before Invincible? So, does it say if Ghes is alive, dead, or does it even mention him at all?

 

Doesn't mention him at all I think. So I don't know if he's okay or not, but I hope he is.

 

Thanks. As long as it doesn't mention him, I'm head-retconning that he's alive.

 

No Vestara listed here. Are you spoiler people messin around?

 

Hmmm... Savara Raine, Vestara Khai, Savara Raine, Vestara Khai...

Well, your background checks out! Welcome aboard!

For the record, I think Savara is a much better name. Can't put my finger on why I think Vestara sounds crummy, but it does. And why do the weird bighead aliens get conventional names and surnames like every other human?

 

Ease of use? Doesn't mean that is their full names or even proper names, but the names they go by, just like Chiss tend to shorten their names.

 

sorry but Luke IS the most powerful force user ever. he has twice the force power of the emperor. This is what George Lucas said. does not matter that he could do nothing in ROTJ, that was a million years ago. If you read the novels, it is obvious that he is the most powerful. He realized the full potential of Anakin Skywalker per lucas. 60 in Star Wars is like 40 in our universe. HE IS NOT OLD!!!!!

 

Personally I find the whole power angle to be a massive blind alley for Luke's character, or, in parlance everyone will understand....

IT'S A TRAP!

 

If you're friends with T-Den on facebook, check out his most recent status: A free signed copy of the book for the two people who can come up with the most outlandish fake spoilers.

 

Last line of the book:
"And they lived happily ever after, with peace and democracy flourishing thanks to the efforts of noble Jedi and GFFA politicians working together."

 

George Lucas isn't in charge anymore. I've read plenty of the novels thank you very much, enough to get a little tired of a Skywalker centric galaxy. There are so many interesting characters, and we are presented with so many more interesting characters, I implore you to open up to the possibility of change, if not your probably going to be miserable while the new movies come out, because I can gaurantee we're not about to see a trilogy about Luke Skywalker being the best. I try to avoid Luke-bashing too much cause I know that in a Star Wars forum that steps on alot of toes, but everyone's peak must pass. I'm sorry, but that's reality.

Personally, I can't wait to read the forums opening night after we all watch him die...

 

Jaina, the last child of Han and Leia, is brutally murdered --
Oh...

 

I sure hope that is not the case.
I understand that if Vestara really is Savare, she would do (in the context of the story) so to hide her identity from her enemies. But why fool readers (us) about a listed character?

 

A Vong biot as character?

 

why? why can't the new characters be featured, and the old ones get the respect and power they deserve? NJO did it. why can't episode 7?

 

I'm assuming it's someone who was altered by Vong biotech, calling her a biot seems kinda rude though.

I think it was supposed to be a surprise for the climax so Han and Ben and whoever else can get in a tiffy over it, and the reader can be fooled into thinking there will consequences from the last series.

There's a difference between respecting the characters that came before, and servicing the arbitrary attitude that says Luke must be the BEST JEDI EVER, Han must be the GREATEST PILOT OF ALL TIME (Wedge and Soontir would dispute that), and Leia the MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN IN THE UNIVERSE.

The importance placed on Luke's POWAH level makes little sense to me as A. It wouldn't be important to the character himself, and B. There was one other character who got really worked up about being the most powerful Jedi ever, hmmm... what was his name?...

 

Kyp Durron?