Books CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

So the library had this book. I picked it up. I'll be reading it after I finish LOTF. The sad thing is, from what I've read and heard about it, if you removed a few facts: that Jag and Jaina were married and Jag isn't Head of State, and any mentions there might be to Abeloth and the Lost Tribe, and Vestara's inclusion, then this could be a sequel to LOTF as easily as it is to FOTJ–the Jedi are on Shedu Maad, Jacen is dead, the government mistrusts the Jedi, Ben and Tahiri are partners after Ben turned her back to the light side in Invincible. None of this screams "something happened in the last three years" to me.

 

Fair point, but I'd say it's not too big a deal in this case. With the exception of the Big Three retiring, nothing of particular galactic importance happens here, and since the retirement thing was always going to come out of nowhere (did anyone actually expect proper build up for that?), I'd say adding actual continuity from either of the two toxic nine-book sets we've seen recently would only hurt the story. On the other hand, I didn't expect the story to be as nakedly dependent on its action sequences as it is, so I'll concede that there's more than enough room for some proper continuity nods. Either way, though, they'd be of no consequence, because this story was never going to be anything ground-breaking.

 

Well, the authors did say before FOTJ came out that they wanted FOTJ to be lower-key than NJO or LOTF, and not have any major character deaths. If anything, I think FOTJ should have been even lower-key than it was... not have the Lost Tribe trying to take over, and not have Abeloth get into politics or blow up parts of Coruscant.

 

It started out low-key, and I think the first four books were great. But then we started delving into Abeloth and things happened. Oh, how things happened!

 

Honestly, I think it's a cover for poor visualization/visual description/spatial conceptualization abilities. Denning's action scenes tend to be borderline incoherent -- there's a lot going on, but it's never quite clear exactly where people are, or what they're doing, or how the action is flowing. They're very visually and spatially vague -- we famously never even find out which of Jacen's arms is cut off in Invincible. Denning himself has admitted that he tends to use Star Destroyers because he has a hard time visualizing any other ships. I think he's just not very good at visualizing action, or potentially much of anything, coherently, and he compensates by trying to create these vivid images of graphic injuries. You can't really visualize what's going on with the lightsabers, or where the people are, or what the fight is, but you can be told that now a rib is cracked, and now he's stabbed in the kidneys, and now she's got a burst spleen, and now he's got an eyeball hanging out and exposed skull. It's an attempted-visceral-and-exciting substitute for coherent action. If you can't describe what's happening, at least describe the results -- the injuries -- and you can sort of get along.

 

That scene always confused me because I thought that Abeloth didn't have a body at that point. How can you bite off a spirit's head?

 

By being the author's pet, that's how./cheapshot

 

I'm pretty sure i read that somewhere, that they wouldn't just fall back on killing off more major characters like LotF did to fill pages, right? Which I find annoying, as then what does that make Kenth, chopped liver? He was a recurring character since the NJO and was basically one of FotJ's major characters, being the temporary Grandmaster/leader while Luke is gone. Unless they meant no heroes would die, and they count Kenth as an antagonist, which I find stupid, as even though I didn't care about him much with his annoying belief in a reasonable Daala (how many times did she use deadly force and he still thought she could be reasoned with?), but I still hate how he died, but just more FotJ debris that is swept under the rug by the end.

It is an interesting point that Crucible could be post-LotF, although it somewhat references FotJ a good deal (the hunt for the Mortis dagger and all). Mainly because FotJ didn't really accomplish much (not like the Jedi are on better terms with the GA at the end of LotF and FotJ, which is really sad when you consider that despite the Jedi pulling off un-Jedi like commando raids and kidnappings, at least Luke and Omas were on speaking terms). Partially the lack of references is due to its standalone status, but also probably just another sign of the sad excuse for its plot.

 

I knew I remembered hearing that! They should have shortened the series to keep it from dragging on.

 

Huh -- I remember the old searchlight cover, but I was unaware there were two different versions plus a slightly different final (grumpy vs smiling Han):



Close up of the first two:

 

I would've preferred the "spotlight" cover to the boring final cover. Sure, the spotlight cover is now the back cover. But how much you want to bet it'll be left off the paperback version?

 

No bet. I'm not a sucker.

 

Just did an awesome interview with Troy Denning and he is giving away a signed copy of this book! Check it out at www.scumandvillainyradio.com

 

Finally got around to reading this - or should I say, reading the first two pages.

 

It's even worse than the early speculation indicated, let me tell you.

 

HEY GUYS REMEMBER THAT CANTINA FROM THE MOVIES WELL THIS IS JUST LIKE IT EVEN HAN THINKS SO BECAUSE HE ALWAYS THINKS ABOUT THE MOVIES.

ALSO LEIA IS SMOKING HOT YOU GUYS.

-Crucible, first page.

This is going to be a slog.

 

Just wait until it gets gross.

 

Is this your swan song?

 

On the bright side, there's a payoff toward the end, when Luke basically describes the Force in a similar way to the way Anakin does in NJO:

Spoiler

 

I feel like denning was

 

Ah, it has begun!

Excellent, but it's but 1 post!



EDIT: Use your Mod powers to re-title the thread: Havac Reads Crucible - Somehow....

EDIT 2: Or do a riff on Man Vs Food - Havac Vs Crucible.... There can only be one....

 

But does this continue the Denning trend of having Leia dress up like a sexy alien?