VIDEO Crusader Kings II

Discussion in 'Games' started by The Loyal Imperial, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    I still haven't figured out to play Hearts of Iron III yet, but I really want to.
  2. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    It's easy as soon as you realize the chickens have to be sacrificed to all of the Guédé, not just Nibo.
  3. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I'm not sure if you're talking about gameplay or the technical aspects. I never play until the end date because I tend to eliminate threats well before then, but I've played until the 1200's without a problem. As far as gameplay, I always mod out the holy war and conquest timers. For all the good CKII+ does (see: a faction system that makes some goddamned sense and isn't guaranteed to rebel for no reason), its creators don't seem to understand that the game is war-oriented and sucks if you have to sit around for 10 years and wait for another opportunity.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Dec 8, 2013
  4. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Wiz tends to favor slimming down combat frequency, it borders on being a signature style. Dunno about the new guys, though.
  5. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 19, 2007
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    I was referring to the technical side of things. Late game scenario starts, without any mods, slow down extremely quickly to being frustratingly slow and nearly unplayable. Mods that overhaul significant parts of the game accelerate the decline. The earliest two start dates slow down after a century or two (which unfortunately often coincides with interesting new developments, like the Mongols arriving): the later ones barely make it to a decade before the grind to a halt begins.
  6. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Last edited by Ulicus, Dec 9, 2013
    Point Given likes this.
  7. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    Dec 2, 2009
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    Oh thank god, they nerfed event troops a bit. A rebel getting 20k event troops while your entire kingdom can only levy 17k is just ridiculous.
    Point Given likes this.
  8. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    Spent much of the weekend playing both EUIV and CKII (1066 start date and no Sunset Invasion for my first play-through; Old Gods date can be played later). So far I am enjoying EUIV more, though they're both cool.

    Any advice for either game would be appreciated; especially for CKII. I understand most of EUIV, though I'm a bit shaky on trade. In CKII I understand relations pretty well, but have a problem with martial and (especially) technological aspects among others. I would also like tips on custom character creation. I think I made my character start too old in his early thirties. He had some fantastic stats and relations when he died... but that was way too soon, from syphilis at 46.:oops:

    In EUIV Castile I did okay, but I made some missteps like not conquering Granada for about 70 years and being late on colonizing. I still don't quite understand how to achieve personal unions either, and so only took a few Aragonese territories through conquest. Ultimately I quit the campaign about 100 years in because of a disastrous war with Morocco that my "ally" Portugal dragged me into immediately before I was about to start my own war of conquest against Mali. Through horrible timing (for me) and divide and conquer tactics Morocco hurt me enough that I was going to need at least a decade to recover from before another war... which Aragon quickly decided I shouldn't be allowed to have.

    I've done better in England, though still not perfectly. I lost all but one of my French provinces in the Hundred Years War and subsequent conflicts, and due to some early game point mismanagement (which I now understand much better at least) I fell really behind in technology. Still, 80 years in I finally conquered (or diplo-annexed) all of the British Isles and created Great Britain, and I've caught completely up with administrative and military tech, while still lagging slightly in diplomatic tech. I decided it was time to start colonizing, only to find Castile in Canada, and then I lost all of the ships and men I sent at sea before I could touch down somewhere better! I think this situation is salvageable, though. Most of my men and ships were back home. I did lose all of my cogs and my explorer, and don't have a lot of money, but most of my ships and men are still around, and as soon as I get some more gold in a few years I can recruit more carracks and cogs, and another explorer, and send them out to the free province next to Castile (that I should have taken instead of going south). Then I can expand a bit and try using my Danish and Portuguese allies in a war with Castile for their colonial provinces. Either that or I'll try to conquer Burgundy, but I think the first plan is safer. France and their ENORMOUS armies/manpower would be too close...

    CKII has only been played till about 1100 and I still only have the one county in Desmond. I'm not as happy with that one. My fantastic custom ruler died of syphilis in his mid 40s about 15 years in, making the realm ruled by a regent for over a decade. My lord spiritual bishop converted to Fraticelli, forcing me to throw him into prison (multiple times), which made him (rather understandably) hate me until I had him assassinated (which was hilariously easy since about 10 people wanted him dead). When my second character came of age his only decent score was stewardship, so after I got him a wife and heir I've had to keep him trying to improve himself with ambitions, which is working so far but is very slow going. Lots of people hated him and it's only finally gotten pretty decent in his late twenties. This game isn't exactly going bad, because I'm not losing ground and am (very) slowly advancing by building improvements and so on, but nothing really good is happening either. Really, nothing is happening. I don't dare attack the two adjacent counties because they're a petty kingdom and will fight me two to one whether I attack the liege or the vassal, and the county to the north that I can sail to is also almost twice my size for levies, so I don't know where to expand. And technology is much less intuitive in this game than in EUIV. Still only understand the bare essentials about how it works, but I can't figure out how I'm supposed to affect it beyond using the councilors (and I'm not even sure how that helps).
  9. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    I have 150 hours of CKII under my belt and I still haven't studied how technology works beyond the council members and picking an improvement once in a while when I have enough points. I remember that it was more cryptic before it was changed to what it is now.

    I suggest that you make a lot of kids and marry them to the neighbors to get alliances. And if you can, change the succession selection to elective, it's the easiest to handle, the heir gets all the titles and there's no successor war.
  10. MrZAP Force Ghost

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    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    I've been watching some Let's Plays on youtube to try to gain a better understanding of the games. These guys named Arumba and shenryyr are pretty good.

    Also checking out some stuff on the forums to see how to win the Hundred Years War as England in a future EUIV game. I'd like to be both a colonial AND a continental power if at all possible.
    Last edited by MrZAP, Dec 12, 2013
  11. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    I can say with regards to tech in CK that it barely matters in the grand scheme - or, at least, it's nowhere nearly as important to your success as it is in EU or Vicky.
  12. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    Tech is mainly useful for increasing retinue size, trade post limit, and upgrading castles. Your leader's traits are far more important in combat- Organizer, Mountain Terrain Expert, Flanker, etc.
  13. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Tech upgrades make my capital virtually invulnerable to sieges, and eventually they can make levies giant.

    And leaders' traits never seem to matter for me. The bigger army usually wins (unless there's some insane bonus like the pagan homeland thingy). It only goes either way if they're really close in size.
  14. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    Wondering if mercenaries would be a good idea for Desmond? The main reason I'm wary of attacking the people above me is because they outnumber me so...

    I don't know how useful they are, though, or if it's worth it.
  15. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    I was certain I had already posted an update here. Weird. Sorry for the long post. I did a bunch and want feedback into how people think I'm doing. This is my first CKII game ever, so I'm very much still learning.

    I started out as Desmond:
    [IMG]

    Anyway, yes, I tried it out and mercenaries are absolutely fantastic. I didn't expand before my third ruler but he and my fourth conquered enough that my fourth guy could become King of Ireland! Technically Scotland has the four provinces in the northeast and I bungled landing a son and made him independent instead of a vassal so I'm missing five provinces from Ireland itself, but that's fairly good only about 110 years in for my first game I think.

    I am rather unsure what to do next, though. I really don't want to have to go to war with my son (not my heir, but still) for that one county (Ossory or Kildare or whatever), and Scotland is rather scary in terms of size so I'd want a decent local ally before taking them on. England would be ideal especially since my heir is already the Count of Westmoreland (through inheritance) but it's hard finding a decent marriage. I do have some marital ties with Norway, but it says I can't call them to war. There are also some other complications: Scotland, though possessing several provinces high on my list, is my ally and has helped in several of the past few wars, and also my heir is a vassal of Castile (they own some scattered duchies in England) so I don't know how that'll work with the changeover... my current guy is already in his fifties so it probably won't be too far in the future, either. I don't want to fight Scotland right now, as they're the only ally I even have right now of decent size who will honor a call to arms, and they far outnumber me in troops from what I've seen. In the last war they brought over 12,000 troops! The most I've ever fielded without mercenaries is a little under half that, and even with mercenaries I've never hit 10,000. I might not have a choice, though; some of those counts in northern Ireland have fabricated claims on me, so they might draw me into a war. Not good...

    The other option for expansion is fractured Wales. Thishas promise, as the only faction there of any strength is a petty kingdom I've already beaten up a few times so I could get their Leinster vassals. I wouldn't even need help from Scotland, and it could be done within a couple of decades if all goes well This isn't without risk, though: if one of those Counts in the north will use a CB on me while I'm preoccupied in Britain I may be in trouble. I also don't know what will happen with succession. If I'm forced to become a Castilian vassal, even with my extra English province, I may be in trouble, especially since my heir doesn't have great stats right now and I won't be able to do anything about that until I become him.

    I think I have a plan, but it requires a lot of things falling into place for it to work.
    1. Conquer as much of Wales as possible while my current ruler is still alive. Also work on getting the extra county from my son if possible (preferably without war, because I want him to not hate me so he can stay landed).
    2. When I switch, immediately switch focus to getting out from under Castile. They're mighty in Iberia (most of the northern half is theirs) but their English holdings are less powerful. If I can keep (or regain) my alliance with Scotland, or get an alliance with England then I should be safe if I try to declare independence. Goals for that war would be complete independence and the other two Castilian provinces next to Westmoreland.
    3. Keep working on an English alliance if I don't have one, and keep working on getting my (then) brother's county if I don't have it. Finish off Wales and, last but not least, take ambitions to improve stats as much as possible.
    4. If and when I do get an English alliance try to break ties with Scotland if I haven't already done so and declare war (provied the English will answer the call), with the intent on getting most or all of the four Scottish provinces in Ireland, driving Scotland back to, well, Scotland. If I can't get all of the provinces in one war, let some peace pass before declaring again to finish them off.
    5. Finish off any and all Welsh independents.

    As long as my next ruler isn't horribly unlucky (or short lived) it should all be doable in his lifetime, but it requires some reliance on the AI cooperating, which I don't like. Obviously other things could happen like a succession war and the normal court intrigue stuff causing distractions, but at least so far I've been pretty good at getting people in my realm to like me, with a few exceptions. Four rulers in and there's only ever been one rival faction, by a cousin, and since he was out of town in Italy we never even fought before I managed to get rid of him.[face_laugh] I've heard several people emphasize the importance of people liking me in CKII to my success so that's always been a high priority. As for Scotland, the one major advantage I can see about fighting them is that most of my levies will be able to reach their Irish provinces more easily, so I'll have a bit of a head start while they mobilize, but that advantage won't last long. In a head to head battle I can't compete with their numbers.

    So that's enough about my current CKII game. I have learned a lot so far, but there's still always more to learn. I understand technology a bit better now, and (per some tips) have gotten some help by sending my spymaster to Constantinople. I'm doing alright tech wise. I've made a few mistakes (like recruiting some mercenaries for 250 gold, then realizing I wanted different ones and disbanding them, wasting all of that money:oops: ) but they've all been learning experiences.

    There are a couple of things I would like to ask about that I don't understand much, mostly because I haven't had to worry about it much yet.
    1. Retinues. I get the concept in theory; they're standing armies with more or less a one-time fee, right? How are they best used? Should I recruit several and keep them around borders in case of war, or is that viewed as aggressive? What's a good ratio of levies and retinue?
    2. Vassalization. This is more about getting out of vassalhood than creating vassals, as the latter has been simple after that one misstep with the son and I'm going to need to worry about this when my current character dies. What's the safest way to get out of it? What can or can't I do while a vassal? Would it even be worth it to stay a vassal? If my character were to die tomorrow and my son were to inherit, what would happen? Would I stay a vassal in England and be independent in Ireland, or would I be a vassal in general, or would I even be able to get out if being a vassal at the start somehow? This is probably the most pressing concern at the moment because it will affect all of my other plans.
    3. Alliances. Another area I've kind of worked out but could use a better handle. How do I arrange strong alliances that (more importantly) will come to war? I know my vassals are always in. I know vassals of other people are always out (unless their liege comes in). So I know who to target. But what's the best way to guarantee that an ally that can be called to arms will answer the call? I'm talking England (and maybe Norway) here.
    4. Succession laws. This is more about playstyle, I guess. With my second ruler I switched from Gavelkind to Primogeniture. As an OPM it didn't matter at the time but it more of a pre-emptive thing because I was thinking about how to expand, and I was worried about future holdings splitting up. So far the relations penalty hasn't hurt me much, but of course I'd like it to go away. I've been landing children (when prudent) regardless, so the lands don't look too much different from a Gavelkind succession anyway, I guess, but I do like the larger degree of control over who gets what. What do you guys think about both succession types? Should I switch back, or two something different? I'm open to suggestions as I only have a rudimentary understanding of the options. All I know is from a cursory glance I don't like the look of Tanistry and Ultimogeniture seems risky (what if some branch family daughter outside of Ireland is born the year before my ruler dies?).

    Side note about EUIV: Shelved my GB game as colonization was getting a bit too frustrating while also not having any room for continental expansion. Started a game as France: might as well see if I can succeed as the BBB. Some serious missteps were made, but capitalizing on some luck made me spring from the brink of defeat to a very strong position and I'm doing very well now. Overall I like (and understand!) EUIV more than CKII and am learning things better there, though both games are pretty sweet.
    Last edited by MrZAP, Dec 19, 2013
  16. Champion of the Force Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 1999
    star 4
    Just a quick mention - CKII, the CKII DLC collection (which includes Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, The Republic and the Sunset Invasion expansions) AND The Old Gods expansion (sold separately) are all selling on Steam at 75% off (Sons of Abraham expansion is still full price). Only ~40 hours remaining on the sale.

    I grabbed the DLC and the Old Gods for barely over 16 bucks (Aust). Bargain. :)
  17. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    That's what I did earlier this month. Great deal. The sale is still there for about 90 minutes, guys, so get it now if you like. Aside from SoA, a couple of unit packs are also full-price, but since that full-price is $1.99...

    I haven't played any further than last time I posted. Taking a bit of a break from Paradox to play a few of other games (got Age of Empires II HD with expansion and XCOM: Enemy Unknown in the sale yesterday, plus I've gotten into War Thunder). Basically I've gotten about half a dozen new games in the past couple months (highly unusual because of finances, but these Steam sales are new to me) so I'm bouncing around between them.

    Would still like some tips and advice on the stuff I posted before. Right now I'm mostly going to be playing XCOM so I probably won't be getting back to CKII for a bit.
    Last edited by MrZAP, Dec 23, 2013
  18. Ulicus Lit'ari

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  19. RC-1991 Force Ghost

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    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    At last, I can play as the God-Emperor Penguin of Antarctica.
    Aragorn327 likes this.
  20. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 19, 2007
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  21. Ulicus Lit'ari

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    Rajas of India, it seems.

    Kind of disappointed. I wanted more depth to what we currently had, not a wider surface area. [face_tired]
    The Loyal Imperial likes this.
  22. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    I can't imagine any way in which this isn't going to make the lag problems much, much worse. Also, the only way I'd care to go to India would be as Alexander, and I'm not expecting a timeline rollback quite that far.
  23. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    Honestly, all I can think of when seeing that as "now EUIV conversions can be even more exploitative".

    Still haven't bought SoA, though I picked up one of the unit packs I was missing. Haven't played a lot of CKII lately, though I finished that EUIV France game (final empire posted in the strategy games thread if any of you care). I can't remember exactly when I left off timeline wise in Ireland, but I remember having some problems. I got that county in central Ireland back, and I never became a vassal of Castile and was able to expand farther into Wales, so all good. I also got lucky when the Norse invaded Scotland so I was able to backstab the Scots and take some more Irish provinces. But then I was dumb and switched back from primo to gavelkind since I wasn't sure how it worked and I wanted to experiment. Well, ruler died and my character lost all of duchy titles I'd kept, and one county is also in danger of leaving the realm entirely, so as soon as my guy comes of age I'm going to have a hard time fighting to regain those titles (and switching back to primo, because that definitely seems like a better option).

    Still don't understand retinues and have only a bare-bones understanding of tech.

    Meanwhile I'm now kicking butt in EUIV as Portugal.
  24. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I still don't have any lag issues . I have a good machine-- GTX 660, 8GB RAM (hoping to get 16 soon), FX-8150-- but it's not exactly the most powerful thing out there. What are people playing this game on? How do other modern games fare?

    Anyway, I'm excited about India. I figured Paradox wouldn't want to do the work of adding two or three religions
  25. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    If they can differentiate the mechanics of India enough, count me in.

    Also, new idea for 867 start: Begin as Haesteinn of Nantes, swear allegiance to Indian ruler, convert to liege's culture, boom- Norse raiding with elephants.