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Lit Cult Encounters (new Legends material)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Yes but he’s also not one to collaborate with parents... the Old Ones would have placed him in a subservient role, and the Son was content to kill Sidious.

    It’s completely in keeping with his character to destroy the Old Ones. He and Daughter were able to put aside their differences however many times to imprison Abeloth.


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  2. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    For some reason I'm picturing the Father of Shadows as a being similar to Mandrakk the Dark Monitor from Final Crisis.

    [​IMG]

    Grant Morrison would be a good choice to write an Old One story come to think of it.
     
  3. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Might there be a connection between the names "Typhojem" and "Tython"?
     
  4. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Also, while I want more Old One goodness, I really hope they don't pull a Naruto and retcon it so that the Old Ones were responsible for the actions of Sidious, Bane, and indeed any other mortal villains.
     
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  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    I would suggest an exception for Vitiate because of the Omen-like description of his baby self.
     
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  6. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Another thing I find interesting: earlier EU works focused a lot on unbelievably ancient things, typically around 100,000 BBY or earlier, but when later works did "precursor"-related stuff it tended to focus on a significantly later (though still very old) period, namely the Rakata and early Republic era of ~30,000-25,000 BBY. Chew on this: the movie era is closer to the Infinite Empire than the Infinite Empire was to the Cosmic War. This also implies that the Celestials' uncontested reign - post-Old Ones, pre-Rakata - was 70,000 years long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    You can thank Tom Veitch for that change. The Dark Empire endnotes established that the Republic and Jedi had been around for 25,000 years (seems like Veitch didn't notice that Obi-Wan said OVER 1000 generations) and then Tales of the Jedi tied the Sith into that. This set a precedent that the EU followed afterwards.
    Dawn of the Jedi implies that the Kwa ruled the galaxy before the Rakata did. I wouldn't be surprised if many other civilizations rose and fell in between the Celestials/Old Ones and the Kwa.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    The Celestials likely left the Gree, Kwa and Killiks to the mundane affairs of the realm, only directly intervening when Abeloth emerged. Which explains why they, generally speaking, allowed the Rakata to dismantle their realm save for removing the Killiks and perhaps walling off the Unknown Regions - which I’d now imply is a First Cosmic War occurrence, not the Second.

    And I would argue quite hard that Vitiate is possessed by an Old One as a child.


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  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    I am personally taking it that Sidious imbalanced the Force sufficiently to cause the Father to die, and led to everything else that went wrong. All manner of Sith spirits crossing over or Sith being resurrected, Other incursions, Abeloth’s escape, culminating in the Return of the Old Ones. We have zero eldritch, devastating light side defeats, or monstrous rituals pre-Plagueis/Sidious, post-Ruusan. Sidious should stand on his own two feet as the culmination of a millennium of refinement and growth by the Sith.

    There are only really three points in Legends history like his. The Pius Dea era, the Great Hyperspace War to Galactic Wars era, and the modern one.

    I absently wonder if the only reason Abeloth did not escape in 5000-3600 BBY is that Vitiate was already here.

    And being as the Celestials went into hiding circa 2,000 BBY, I look at Darth Ruin and think what did the Son do?

    That being said... Xendor was a secret Old One worshipper... and even met the Ones! Did they perhaps arrange to see him due to his beliefs?


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  10. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 29, 2012
    And Gregar Typho, for that matter? :p
     
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  11. Landb

    Landb Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Mar 7, 2017
    If it follows the example set by Cult Encounters, it won't. At worst it will declare that an increasingly unhinged scholar rapidly approaching his death/disappearance believed that this might be the case.

    I know I'm repeating myself but I really am against taking the stuff in these as solid fact rather than the mysterious possibilities they're presented as. I significantly prefer this kind of "Maybe these are all Abeloth. Maybe they're all different things. Maybe some are and some aren't. Maybe most of them were never real at all, or were just more mundane things/beings which time and legend has blown out of all proportion." stuff over a set-in-stone D&D style cosmology where we know for certain what is real, what is exaggerated, what is purely imaginary, and who all the players are. Even if the latter is easier to make Wookieepedia articles of.
     
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  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    That’s the thing though.

    The framing device means that Arhul can get it completely wrong.

    He already separated Typhojem and the Father of Shadows, for example. We also know Abeloth is a One, rather than an Old One, so she’s separate from the trinity of Trinity’s. He hasn’t accounted for Tilotny or Horliss-Horliss either.

    I’d appreciate some answers but with enough give in them to spin off. Legends is all but over, for now. We are lucky that we get these articles at all.


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  13. Landb

    Landb Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Mar 7, 2017
    "Though"? That was essentially my point. The way Cult Encounters is framed is what makes me love it, whereas if it had been presented as a collection of solid facts I'd have been much more ambivalent. I expect Supernatural Encounters will be similar, possibly even more enjoyably unreliable given that Arhul will be even further along his journey into madness enlightenment something.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
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  14. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    That's one era I would still like to see explored. Basically from the downfall of Vitiate/Valkorion to Ruin, it seems to be a relative time of peace (ala no Sith). I wonder what caused Ruin to bring the Sith back to the forefront. While the Republic and Jedi were never completely destroyed, at least not to the extent under Sidious, the Sith did seem to be at their strongest during this millennium (Ruin to the Kaan and the Brotherhood)...until the Rule of Two and the fulfillment of the Grand Plan under Sidious and Vader.
     
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  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Well the Guide to Warfare told us that for two centuries before the New Sith Wars the Republic was in decline to Sith and Separatists, and we had Desolous, the Kruskan Sith, Morn and the fragments of the Cult of Phobos. In 3017 we have the last Alsakan Conflict too. So there are some Sith and conflicts active.


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  16. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I wonder what direction Celestial and Old One lore would have gone in if TCW didn't introduce Mortis.
     
  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    More curiously...

    ... did anyone else tense up when Abeloth heard the Tribe recount the tales of the Protectors? Her reaction was so curious.

    Similarly, the Killiks correct the Jedi; Abeloth is a force of Chaos, not Destruction, and thus, perhaps, not a Destructor, as opposed to Skyborn and those that dwell on the Otherside. The odd thing being that they emerged from underground, according to Keshiri legends. Perhaps an Old One hid beneath the surface of Kesh, emerged, and was beaten.

    Abeloth has never visited Kesh, but Ophidian Grotesques are there, due to Taalon’s knowledge of the same. Meanwhile, Reo had Ophidian Grotesques but also Winged deity statues. Coruscant and the others only have the Grotesques, which implies that the Ones never settled there.

    Further, to carry on the Destructor and Protector analogy, even Taat refers to the Jedi as Protectors.

    Cronal, a member originally of an Old One cult, connects with Mindor, after reassembling some Old techniques and knowledge, it seems, and Mindor is proximate to one of the devastated ophidian world’s, just as much as Kathol is to one. So it’s entwined. Potentially the Old Knowledge was destroyed and scattered and the barrier between the known and Unknown created...

    ... but what of Gorog? The Killiks attack Korriban, the Nest he ruled was driven into the Unknown Regions, a Sith was abandoned on Alsakan and then Sarafur, yet the Night Spirit ends up on Endor, nearby the Endor Gate, an impossible Hyperspace wormhole that seemingly reacted to the Glove of Darth Vader...

    ... and were the builders of the Eternal Fleet originally Old One cultists? Six Gods, one other entity, genocidal higher tech droids that’s default mission was to erase all life...? Are we looking at an iteration of the Abominor, which oddly ended up here from the Vong galaxy as much as the Silentium and Vong themselves, who possessed six Gods, a gravity-based technology which could foil Celestial weapons? Are Silentium constructs of the Ones?


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  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Cosinga told Damask that, "The Naboo have a legend about six impenetrable gates that hold back chaos. House Palpatine is one of those gates, Damask." I wonder if the implication is supposed to be that Palpatine murdering his family unleashed the Old Ones.
     
  19. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    All this stuff is really cool but I can't help but think we might just be following breadcrumbs that don't lead anywhere. All this stuff was spread out between dozens of different writers over two+ decades, after all.
     
  20. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    The EU often connected things that weren't orignally meant to be connected. For example, look how, the Great Heep, Vuffi Raa, and the Vong were connected over time.
     
  21. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Jedi Knight star 2

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    Oct 12, 2017
    The name Abeloth reminds me too much of Abel Pena.

     
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  22. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

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    Dec 13, 2010
    There definitely must be some sort of background notes for this article. Especially given the fact that it mentions things from the Guide to Warfare and such, implying even after all the times it was canceled it was still being updated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
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  23. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Wonder if they will tie in the ship from Rider in the Void to the Yuuzhan Vong?
    And how did that mention by Caderous Ordo in KOTOR happen?
     
  24. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    It’s a reference to Aboleth, which is admittedly lazy naming.

    So, Old Ones and Old Gods and the True Gods. Six a piece with a potential predecessor God?


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  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It's unlikely to be a Vong itself (maybe a Vong relative like the Sekotians are Vong relatives?) - but it's possible that it came from their galaxy, and that its belief that the species that fought against its own was destroyed, is in error:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Ship_(sentient_spacecraft)
     
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