Current Vcard sets...thoughts

Discussion in 'Games: CCG, TCG, and Boardgames' started by Red84, Oct 29, 2002.

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  1. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Oct 20, 2000
    star 4
    Now that the first four sets have been out (counting YJ) for a bit, what are your thoughts about the first round of vcards this year? Everything from Gameplay to Concepts.. we'd like to know.
  2. BigPoppaJabba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2001
    star 4
    I like the new symbols. It leaves room for more gametext.

    From the perspective of someone who mainly plays "fun" games, the added uses for the older cards are great. I especially like the matching weapon cards.
  3. The2ndRest-in-Peace Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2002
    star 3
    I like the new symbols also- and cards able to grab weapons was greatly welcomed. Overall, the new cards have been really fun and brought new lfie to some of my older cards::)

    I disliked the crushing blow given to podracing though, I feel that was unfair- especially since you basicly invalidated the existing anti-podracing d-shield for the darkside.
  4. Aeopile Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    I think that the PC has done an excellent job with the Virtual Sets so far. FWKTIL (v) is incredible and in my play area has spawned a lot of unique decks.
  5. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    I agree with 2ndQue- er, 2ndRIP, the podracing killers were overkill. Other concerns I've had on the V-Cards I think I've shared elsewhere.

    As for the YJ v-cards, specifically, I disliked the "objective-less" objective cards. I also agree with others who've commented that some of the YJ v-cards have too much game text. YJ is supposed to be simple, four lines of game text is too much.

  6. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Overkill? Are you kidding? Podracing is directly responsible (with Senate at #2) for the decline in tournament attendance.. so yeah it was going to get s adirect hit. You think making a player lose 10 Force because they didn't pack podracer tech is a good idea?

    Podracing should have only worked like it did IF both players had podracer cards at the Arena. What the mechanic turned out to be was downright dumb from a marketing pov. IMO, "podracing" was when players really started looking at Decipher like they had snakes coming out of their mouths...and for good reason.

    So yeah...podracing got killed and Senate got knocked down a few rungs. Good. :)
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Curious why a different card was turned into a podrace killer instead of virtualizing the existing anti-podrace d-shields from R3 to be more effective?
  8. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Good question... with lots of answers. Here's a few of the main ones.

    - The other two Shields are unique. Now players can pack anti-podrcaing x2 if they want.

    - Players simply have another option. Isn't that part of the charm of this game? :) I have seen players prefer the original Shield to the virtual one. *shrug*

    - One of the goals of the VCards is to lure older players back. Those players probably don't have any Reflections 3. We don't want to make it neccessary to have to buy stuff to get back into the game.
  9. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Overkill? Are you kidding?

    No, I'm not kidding. :)

    The new anti-podracing v-shields are overkill for the simple reason they do not count toward your "three shields per game" limit. There's absolutely no reason for that.

    - The other two Shields are unique. Now players can pack anti-podrcaing x2 if they want.

    Huh? Who would? A Close Race cuts your losses down; Traffic Control cancels your loss altogether. That's a no-brainer. Using both also complicates the conditions for suspending Watto's Box or I Did It. Since you can only have 10 cards under your starting effect, spending 2 slots for anti-podracing tech is unwise.


    - One of the goals of the VCards is to lure older players back. Those players probably don't have any Reflections 3. We don't want to make it neccessary to have to buy stuff to get back into the game.

    Well, if the goal was to appease those older players who may not have any Reflections III cards, why make it a shield? Why not make it an effect that could be started with HFTMF or PD? Those older players may not even have the Starting Effect, and now they can't even pull the card with The Signal or Twi'lek Advisor.... Just a thought....

    How about a new (virtual) Starting Effect? That could be interesting....

  10. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    The new anti-podracing v-shields are overkill for the simple reason they do not count toward your "three shields per game" limit. There's absolutely no reason for that.

    That is a matter of opinion.

    (And here I was thinking crazy Fett and Lando were the real "Phantom Menaces"... silly me. It was the anti-pod Defensive Shields all the time!! ;))

    Since you can only have 10 cards under your starting effect, spending 2 slots for anti-podracing tech is unwise.

    That too is a matter of opinion :)


    Well, if the goal was to appease those older players who may not have any Reflections III cards, why make it a shield? Why not make it an effect that could be started with HFTMF or PD?

    And how would that be "less broken"? You're still getting the "broken" racing tech without spending your three Shields.

    Those older players may not even have the Starting Effect....

    Ahhh But last I read, Defensive Shields can be stocked in a deck... Last I looked, Traffic Control is no ordinary Shield (look at the destiny #)...
  11. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    That is a matter of opinion.

    Well, duh. ;) It's all just my opinion....

    (And here I was thinking crazy Fett and Lando were the real "Phantom Menaces"... silly me. It was the anti-pod Defensive Shields all the time!!)

    Don't get me started on Fett and Lando... :D



    "Well, if the goal was to appease those older players who may not have any Reflections III cards, why make it a shield? Why not make it an effect that could be started with HFTMF or PD?"

    And how would that be "less broken"? You're still getting the "broken" racing tech without spending your three Shields.


    I wasn't saying making it an effect would make it less broken. I was saying making it an effect would make it easier for the "older players" to actually use it.

    Ahhh But last I read, Defensive Shields can be stocked in a deck... Last I looked, Traffic Control is no ordinary Shield (look at the destiny #)...

    Sure, but you still can't pull it with The Signal, or start it with HFTMF. So for an older player who hates the idea of Defensive Shields to begin with, it would have been better to keep it an Effect, instead of making it a Defensive Shield.

    Has the PC thought about making v-card Effects with game text like "may be played from under An Unusual Amount of Fear / Fear Is My Ally in place of a Defensive Shield"? As an Effect, older players don't have to have the Starting Effect to play them effectively, but newer players can still play them as if they were a D-Shield.

    Just a thought.....



  12. Aeopile Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    Artie's got a point, it is talking out of both sides of the mouth to say: "We virtualized a premiere common so older players will have access to it since they didn't buy Reflections III" BUT to get the best use of it, you needed to buy Ref III to get the starting Effect.

    Since it is virtualized as a shield, you can't: Start it with HFTMF/Prep Defensive -or- signal/advise/Board at Once/Accelerate for it.

    So, what do you do? Run 3 of 'em in a deck to make sure you get it by turn 3 when Sebulba has the race won?

    No, the Podracing D-shields are silly for 3 reasons:

    1) The reason for their being is contradictory for reasons I explained above.
    2) They are meant to appease people who QUIT the game, and give a big middle finger to the people who stuck around
    3) They serve only to please people who would rather complain the 'tech' for a solution.

    I'm a bit worried about what I'm seeing, it seems like the PC is trying to get players that already quit/sold their collections/not coming back instead of focusing on satisfying those players that stuck around.

  13. Restrainingbolt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 4
    I just want to post a comment with respect to the Player's Committee. I met a number of them at DecipherCon this past weekend. They are a great bunch of people. It is important to remember that none of them are paid to do what they are doing. They put in many more hours than most can imagine. A number of them had to pay their own way to DecipherCon, not to play I might add, but to help coordinate and manage the Star Wars events. It is my understanding that the Star Wars Championship event went on (in one of the hotels) well after the doors closed at the Convention center that evening.

    I strongly believe that the PC has nothing but the best in mind and is working it's hardest to try and keep the game alive. I just want to take a moment to thank them for all their "efforts".

    R'Bolt
  14. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    "...BUT to get the best use of it, you needed to buy Ref III to get the starting Effect."

    "Sure, but you still can't pull it with The Signal, or start it with HFTMF. So for an older player who hates the idea of Defensive Shields to begin with, it would have been better to keep it an Effect, instead of making it a Defensive Shield."


    Often you just can't have your cake and eat it too. The main point is that the tech is available AND usable. And I think trading to get the Starting Effect is a far cry from forcing a player to drop $100 for a box of R3.

    And this is where I say "Enter Classic-only stage RIGHT".

    Has the PC thought about making v-card Effects with game text like "may be played from under An Unusual Amount of Fear / Fear Is My Ally in place of a Defensive Shield"? As an Effect, older players don't have to have the Starting Effect to play them effectively, but newer players can still play them as if they were a D-Shield.

    We have several options we are looking at from making a virtual SE to eliminating and compensating for them in the Classic-only. Right now, anything can happen. What I can say is that we're seriouslly looking to make a tournament environment friendly to pre-Ep1 players.
  15. Artie-Deco Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2001
    star 3
    Let me be clear: I am not criticizing the PC's efforts here. I agree, they should be highly commended for their efforts. I'm just expressing my opinions on a few virtual cards, that's all, and offering some suggestions given the stated purpose of some v-cards....

  16. Restrainingbolt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 4
    I'm sure you didn't Artie (or anyone else for that matter). I should have been more clear in my post. I just wanted to be sure that any PC member understood that their efforts are more than appreciated. After seeing how they, in effect, really ran the show with respect to the SWCCG (JK and YJ) at DecipherCon (Decipher isn't really legally able to do more I'm sure), I wanted to be sure they understood that their efforts were appreciated. :) I had never really understood their level of commitment until seeing them in "action".

    R'Bolt
  17. Aeopile Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2002
    I debate because I care for the game, not because we dislike the Player's Committee. I'm very pleased with what the committee has done and am very hopeful for the future. I just want a solution to make the the current playing community happy.
  18. Red84 SWCCG Content Mgr. (Card Games)

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    Okay, this part of the thread probably could have been put elsewhere, but since it's here I'll address it so that we can get back to discussing the vcards in this thread :)

    The PC thanks everyone for the amount of overwhemling support we have received this past year. It's because we know that we have that support that we continue to move on into the future.

    Consequentially, the PC also knows that it isn't perfect and that we make mistakes. That's part of the reason we Advocates have made ourselves so accessible. We're all aware that when we ask for opinions we're going to get them. That's what we want! :) If we were going to be afraid of the feedback then we wouldn't come onto these boards and ask for it.

    And another reason we make ourselves accessible? Because we're all players too. We all actively play this game (or at least try). We won't risk killing a game that we love to play as much as anyone.

    Feel free to open a new thread if you have more to discuss on this issue. Now... back to the vcards :D
  19. Restrainingbolt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 4
    Well given I somewhat derailed the topic, I will try and get it back on track. I will say that I believe the Player committer needs to focus on the needs of both the current players as well as those who have left the game. Any new cards need to address three target groups in my view:

    1. Current Players
    2. Those who quit (stopped playing) the game and who might be encouraged to return. I fall into that category I might add.
    3. Potential new players.

    A healty game needs all three. Any movement toward just trying to satisfy the current players (and yes, they are the loyal group which everyone needs to acknowledge) would be a short term and ultimately (in my view) an approach which would ultimately lead to the complete demise of the game. Current player wants, need to be tempered with an approach which tries to get new players involved in the game, as well as those who stopped playing back into playing it again. Any new virtual cards, or play environment options (Classic only), should be developed with those three objectives in mind.

    R'Bolt
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