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CUT LINE: Dooku responsible for Anakins mother's death

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by FollowerOfSidious, Jan 16, 2006.

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  1. FollowerOfSidious

    FollowerOfSidious Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Dec 10, 2005
    I didn't know where to post this so lock if needed. I was reading some trivia about ROTS on imdb.com & found this fact:



    In the battle duel scene with Count Dooku, the imprisoned Palpatine originally had more dialog which he was to shout at Anakin. One of his lines pertained to Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) in which Palpatine exposed Dooku as paying the Tusken Raiders to kidnap, torture and kill Shmi Skywalker.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 26, 2004
    It was a dropped idea. Dooku had nothing to do with Shmi's death.
     
  3. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Had it remained it would've looked too much like Anakin was set up. Some things needed to be just nature going along it's course. People come and go. For some people it is their time to die and for others, it is not. It makes Anakin's situation more realistic that he cannot accept nature and not that he was always manipulated into it. He does have to be tricked, but he also has to look past the deception for the truth in these matters.
     
  4. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 30, 2001
    I believe George should have kept that dialogue. The idea that Tusken Raiders just happen to kidnap Shmi right before Palpatine manages to separate Anakin from Obi-Wan and expose him to bad influences is too much.

    I mean Palpatine would have had to do away with Shmi sooner or later anyways. I mean you can't have your apprentice not following his Masters commands because his mommy doesn't approve.
     
  5. G-FETT

    G-FETT Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    I agree with Sinister on this. Shmi's kidnapping and eventual death was a random occurance that wasn't set up by The Sith. For a start, how would explain The Tuskens and The Sith having a relationship, when The Tuskens are a nomadic bunch that don't form relationship's with people outside of their own tribes? How would The Sith get The Tuskens to kidnap Shmi? Why would The Tuskens do this for The Sith?

    Shmi's kidnapping and death was a random tragedy. That doesn't mean Palpatine didn't make the most of it though. Maybe he knew about Anakin's nightmares (just as he knew about Anakin's nightmares in ROTS) and realised it was the right time to split up Anakin and Obi-Wan, because without Obi-Wan to guide him, Anakin would be forced to go and help his Mother.
     
  6. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Sep 19, 2005
    Anakin had'nt seen his mom in 10 years!
    He only went to see her because of his dream.
    I highly doubt she would have gotten between
    Anakin and Palpatine.
     
  7. DamonD

    DamonD Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 22, 2002
    I like it better that it's left up to the viewer to decide whether Dooku and Sidious had a hand in Shmi's death or not. Kinda like the whole "did Palpatine create Anakin" stuff, it depends on the viewer...whatever suits them.
     
  8. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 30, 2001

    But it was the Jedi Order that separated them. I think it's clear that if Anakin left the Jedi Order, he would have re establish contact with his mother. Sidious would have let Vader do what he wants with Padme and Shmi. But ultimately I think it's clear Sidious would have bumped them off eventually just to draw out the rage of Vader.

    I just think part of Palpatine's plan in AOTC was to separate Obi-Wan from Anakin. Anakin would then be exposed to non-Jedi emotions. One was the love of Padme. The other I think was the death of Shmi. In my view, it works better if Palpatine had a hand in the death of Shmi then it just being a perfect coincidence.
     
  9. Carnage04

    Carnage04 Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 8, 2005


    I would have to say that the likelihood of a Sith Setup is lower than a random Tusken Raider attack. It's clearly established in ANH that "The Jungland wastes are not to be travelled lightly" or whatever. Luke goes a tad away from the farm and gets attacked in broad daylight. The Tuskens CLEARLY are agressive beings that will kill anyone hanging around, alone, and close to their territory.

    Carnage
     
  10. battlewars

    battlewars Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 5, 2005
    shmi being attacked by tuskens and anakins dreams to me work better if they were in act created by sidious, only because they seem to come out of nowhere in the films
     
  11. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 23, 2000

    But Shmi was nowhere near the Jundland Wastes when the Tuskens took her because Cliegg Lars mentioned that she was dusting crops on the homestead when they kidnapped her so I find it suspicious that a group of barbaric creatures like the Tuskens would leave their homelands just to kidnap an elderly woman. What's also suspicious is that they didn't kill her the second she crossed their path and then she dies the second Anakin finds her.

    All of these coincidences just screams the words "Sith setup".
     
  12. andkiich

    andkiich Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Jul 19, 2005
    She was getting mushrooms from the moisture evaporators. Those things are way out and she probably crossed their paths while they were moving from one point to another.

    Also, on an earlier point, Palpatine telling Anakin that Dooku had his mother killed would turn Anakin's anger toward the Sith. As the story plays, Anakin is only angry at the Sith because he was told they are evil. If Palpatine tells Anakin that the Sith killed his mother, that confirms in Anakins mind that the Sith are what the Jedi say.
    Now, Anakin blames Obi-Wan and the jedi for taking him away from his mother, holding him back, and keeping secrets from him. All these things the Sith use to poison Anakins perceptions, making the Jedi seem to be manipulative and evil.
     
  13. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Dec 30, 2003
    Tatooine is a neutral planet. I have a hard time seeing Tuskens, wild as they are, being swayed by a Republic or Confederate leader.
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    As Cliegg describes it, the Tuskens were a scouting party. Just cause they're in the Judland Wastes doesn't mean that they don't travel from there. It just means that if you go there, you're likely to be attacked by Tuskens. In the novelization for AOTC, it explains that the Tuskens would occassionally bother the farmers. They had been doing that for several days, before Shmi was taken. She had gone out to pick mushroooms near a vaparator. Not all of them were at the farm itself, but in various ridges and plains, for several miles.

    Take note that in ANH, they don't kill Luke. They drag him back to his speeder. What they would've done had Obi-wan not forseen Luke being in danger, is pretty obvious based on what happened to Shmi. Palpatine just merely capitalized on what Anakin had told him from before. His main goal was to get Padme and him alone, so that he could develop an attachment to her. And so that she couldn't oppose him in the Senate. The Tusken Slaughter was just a bonus.
     
  15. AnnLouise

    AnnLouise Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jul 10, 2005
    But it would've, to me at least, made the whole situation a little more believeable. Everything else in the PT, from the Trade Fed blockade of Naboo on, was a manipulation of the Sith. Why not the kidnapping of the Chosen One's mother? For Shimi's abduction to happen at the same time as Anakin and Padme's feelings running into overdrive on Naboo was a little too co-incidental for my taste.
     
  16. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Shmi was kidnapped one month prior. Everything in life happens for whatever reason. It's not always tied to one person. Palpatine just used Anakin's nightmares to his advantage.
     
  17. AnnLouise

    AnnLouise Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jul 10, 2005
    My bad. It seemed though that she wasn't at the point of dying until almost the same time, at least as presented in AOTC.
     
  18. Erby

    Erby Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 15, 2006
    I agree. Palpatine's whole plan revolved around convincing Anakin that the dark side was better. Claiming that Dooku set up his mother's death would have pushed Anakin farther away from that ideology. However, that dosen't mean that Palpatine didn't somehow manipulate Anakin's dreams to send him images of what was happening, to further push him down that path.
     
  19. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 30, 2001

    A politician, no. A Sith or Jedi, yes. Obi-Wan Kenobi scared the crap out of the Tuskens in ANH just by screaming and walking towards them. They are weak mind enough to be controlled if someone powerful enough wishes to control them.

    Also I'm not too sure Anakin would blame Sidious for Shmi's death. I mean if he did, then he'd have to fault Sidious for the multiple attempts to kill Padme. Or the death of Qui-Gon Jinn. But we don't see that grudge in ROTS now do we? Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon Jinn. Viceroy Nute Gunray wanted Padme dead. So why couldn't Darth Tyranus have had Shmi killed? Motive could easily have been Dooku's jealousy of the Chosen One. Jealous that Darth Sidious favored the young Jedi. Well that's how it can be explained to Anakin. Dooku doesn't REALLY have to believe that. He could kill her at the command of Sidious.

     
  20. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 23, 2000
    But once Palpatine tells Anakin that he's Darth Sidious, Anakin should've pieced together that it was him who trained both Dooku and Qui-Gon's murderer(Darth Maul) and has engineered multiple attempts to kill Padme but Anakin doesn't care anymore due to the whole "Dark Side can save Padme" trump card that Sidious used on him. Even if Sidious was responsible for Shmi's death, it wouldn't matter to Anakin because that trump card left him with 2 choices: Help Sidious destroy the Jedi or watch Padme die.

    Even though Anakin chose choice #1, Padme still dies and now Anakin is trapped in a pressurized oxygen suit and forced to serve PalpSidious for life.
     
  21. OX-FAN-WHO

    OX-FAN-WHO Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Mar 8, 2003
    I doesn't sound right. I can't see the need for Dooku, or any Sith to have to PAY for that. They would impose their will on them. The raiders would be glad to help. Much like a mafia don. They get others to do what they want.
     
  22. HL&S

    HL&S Magistrate Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 30, 2001
    If someone can post the exact lines that were to be spoken, that would be great. I think they can be found in the Making of Episode III book.




    I agree to that too. If Anakin doesn't piece it together and instead blames Tyranus, it works out for Sidious. If he does piece it together, Sidious will still play the Padme card and win. So it still works if Sidious has Shmi killed.
     
  23. Amon_Amarth

    Amon_Amarth Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 27, 2005
    Palpatine had something to do with Shmi's death, as he had something to do with all the events that slowly led Anakin to the Dark Side. However, I don't think Dooku was involved.
     
  24. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Tuskens: Confederate credits are no good out here! We need something more....solid.
    Dooku: Damn. How about we bet on next week's podrace instead?
     
  25. DARTHIRONCLAD

    DARTHIRONCLAD Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2005
    Maybe Jabba was responsible for Shmi's death???



    Star Wars Insider # 84: question from Star Wars fan:
    In Return Of The Jedi, some guy shoots Luke in the hand. Who is he?

    Answer from Star Wars Insider:
    The human sharpshooter with dried bone bound to his helmet is one of Jabba's goons, Taym Dren-garen, and his job was to deal directly with Tusken Raiders. Dren-garen kept the desert nomads armed and well supplied, and fueled their tempers with lies about local settlers. By provoking skirmishes between Tuskens and the settlers, he kept local authorities busy and distracted from Jabba the Hutt's operations. This back story comes from a card in the Jabba's Palace expansion of the Star Wars Customizable Card Game from Decipher, Inc.



    And Jabba gets his come upings from Shmi's grandchildren.
     
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