dagobaoh

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by garygill123, Oct 6, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Wise words, kanos.

    I know it's a stretch, but you will just never find such strong connections between any other couple of planets in the SW universe. They are all so very distinct to one another, which gives valid reason for wondering why Naboo and Dagobah suddenly turns out to have a lot in common. The only other common factor shared by planets in the movies seems to be the fact that they are all spherical...

    Someone brought up the fact that both Naboo and Dagobah are shown on recent maps in various books. Well, even if they are one and the same - do you think LFL would announce it to the world by erasing Dagobah (or Naboo - depending on the timeline) from maps, if it's set to be a twist in the coming story? I don't think so.

    And for the record; Naboo and Dagobah are virtually in the same spot on these maps. Still, Luke says that Dagobah aren't on any of the maps in TESB. Why is that? Naboo's neighbors are sure to be known planets. And if Dagobah is just an obscure planet which happens to be right next to Naboo, why would it disappear from maps?

    Answer; it's Naboo, and Palpatine destroyed it during the Clone Wars, and consequently erased its existence from all records. Surely not the only thing he managed to make "disappear" during his reign of terror. His reasons are still to be revealed.

    Is this really so far-fetched...?
  2. obi-man Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2000
    star 4
    The universe is big. And no EU map can tell anyone anything.

    But to get to the question. This is a perfect example of taking a line literally and out of context. Much like the "no desinigrations" line, when luke says he feels familiarity it doesn't mean he feels familiarity about Dagobah. He was feeling Yoda's presence, he just didn't know it. Here's some evidence

    1. People with jedi powers can sense other people who are strong in the force. (Vader felt Obi-wan in ANH, Luke felt Leia and visa versa in ESB. ect, ect.)

    2. Luke has little force power at the time. He felt something while on the falcon but obviously can't detect Vader on the death star.

    3. Luke was on Dagobah, he felt a strong comforting presence. He assumed his feeling of comfort was coming from where he was not from who was near him.

    4. Yoda would give off a ton of strength and comfort. Being around him would be very similar to being somewhere you felt calm and comfortable.

    5. Luke was complaining about being there.. he happened to say he felt like there was something familiar about this place. What he really felt was Yoda and the good side of the force. Heck, Obi-wan was probably there in spirit.

    I suggest when you watch ESB next time, noticed how Luke says it. He doesn't say it like he knows what he's feeling. He says it like he knows that there is something good about this place.


    ---Obi-man
  3. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I think Naboo = Dagobah is a great idea. A planet once known for its beauty reduced to an overgrown swamp. The planet where the Emperor came from becomes the training ground for his downfall. Awesome symbolism.

    It won't happen, but it would be cool.

    What would really be cool is if Naboo is just mentioned in passing as part of the Dagobah system.
  4. Qui-Gon_Jon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 1
    For the record, I think Lucas pays about as much atention to the Expanded Universe as he does to TF.N message boards- in other words, none. Maps or no maps, Lucas will have it his way and let us adjust to it.

    That was a good point, earlier, about all the other planets being as different from one another as night and day, but Naboo and Dagobah go together like leftovers and soup.

    As far as Luke's comment about Dagobah being "familiar", that can be read any way you want it to. It can refer to Yoda's presence, or be an ironic reference to something similar that Anakin may go through or the fact that it was once the beautiful home of his mother. I believe the last one, personally, but I don't think the line in and of itself proves or disproves anything.
  5. DarthTerrious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Well Naboo=Dagobah is an intriguing theory.

    I think that Luke was probably taken there before he was taken to Tatooine. Its possible he was born there. But i guess we'll see.
  6. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    This brings back the point that people have no problem with Luke remembering being born on Dagobah, yet Leia has to be 3 or 4 to have images and feelings about her mother. :p
  7. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Luke's line is not a big part of why I think Naboo = Dagobah.

    Again I have to point out the scene where Amidala and the Jedi go to meet Boss Nass in the Naboo swamp. The trees, the flying creatures, and the even the frickin' jungle sounds, are exactly the same as what we see and hear on Dagobah when Luke has landed in TESB. That's the main thing for me. Unless a desert shows up on some other planet in AotC or EpIII or something - there are absolutely no such similarities going on between any other places in the SW universe, and I'm having a hard time believing it's just by chance. Couldn't Chiang come up with some other flying creatures? Couldn't Burtt have churned out some other sounds? Did it really have to be a swamp? Etc...

    This is no coincidence.

    And I agree that the symbolism would be great. And apart from that - we will simply HAVE to see some major destruction during the Clone Wars, if we're going to believe that it really was one of the most devastating conflicts in galactic history. And which is the most beautiful and peaceful and innocent planet we've visited? Naboo. And it makes sick sense that Palpatine, on the verge of becoming Emperor, orders the destruction of his own home planet. There can be numerous reasons for that.

    And it would be great drama.
  8. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    As for the proximity of Naboo and Dagobah, the best map can be found in issue 5 of "Star Wars Gamer." Naboo is closer to Tatooine then it is to Dagobah; and therefore can be ruled out as a possible site of Dagobah. While the Dagobah/Naboo theory is interesting, GL and the people at Lucasfilm wouldn't make as large a continuity gap as that. While Lucas himself may not have the time to study every ounce of EU material, he has people who do.
    Therefore, I think Luke's feeling of "something familiar" could be that he'd been there as an infant. One of the simplest questions I've always had is: how does Yoda get to Dagobah? Perhaps, Obi-Wan dropped him off before taking Luke to the Lars family on Tatooine. It would be easier to ditch a ship in Mos Eisley then on Dagobah.
  9. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    There are bigger inconsistencies in EU than a map.
  10. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Indeed.

    I'm looking forward to saying "told you so" here in a couple of years. ;)
  11. Jeppedk Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2001
    What about the dark cave.
    Coundn´t it be that somekind of jedihunter follows Yoda to Dagobaoh.

    They fight and Yoda wins.
    And the hunter dies in the cave.

    Just a thought, though
  12. Qui-Gon_Jon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 1
    Lucasfilm allowed the publication of books and comics that establish a history and identity for Boba Fett and AOTC is about to contradict all that crap.

    Bottom line is, Lucas has little to zero personal involvement in whatever is published in any licensed products because it doesn't matter. The movies are the only established canon there is. You think that G.L. cared that early writers like Brian Daley let Luke have romantic feelings about Leia? As soon as he established that they were siblings, those other details became irrelevant. Lucas won't be bound by a RPG map.
  13. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    "Bottom line is, Lucas has little to zero personal involvement in whatever is published in any licensed products because it doesn't matter." Like I said earlier, GL may not have "personal involvment" but there are people at Lucasfilm who preview any new material looking for such large inconsistancies. And while Boba Fett has been developed after RotJ, the details of his childhood are limited and scattered. I just read his story in "Tales of the Bounty Hunter," while Boba Fett is called Journeyman Protector Jaster Mereel exiled from Concord Dawn, they never go into his age or whether he is originally from there. He could have been left there after events of AotC.
    So don't blame EU for your wild speculation Qui-Gon-Jon. There are better explanations for things like "the cave," Jeppedk's idea is a better one then yours. Yes, there were mistakes made in the old Marvel comics; but the SW franchise has grown to the point where there are professionals making sure Dagobah/Naboo isn't one of them in new material. Not to mention the fact that Naboo has been mentioned in New Jedi Order books; so Naboo has not been erased from the general knowledge in SW universe.
    By the way, pull your head out of the sand when it comes to movies being the only true canon. It was near-minded thinking like that that made people believe the Earth was flat...NEWS FLASH... it's round :)
  14. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Don't worry. If Dagobah turns out to = Naboo the EU apologists will come up with something.
  15. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    I don't get why people insist that the folks in the know have so much control now, that the maps won't be misleading. Hey, let's just say that I'm right, for the sake of argument - Naboo becomes Dagobah. This is very likely to be a rather major event after Naboo being so well-established in I and II. Do you seriously think LFL would give that away in a silly map, by leaving out one of them because they'll eventually turn out to be the same? ?[face_plain]

    You don't think they'd rather just make a new map after 2005...?
  16. JM_Corran_Horn Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2001
    star 2
    Naboo is NOT Dagobah, repeat Naboo is NOT Dagobah.

    Let me explain:

    Star Wars Galaxies, an upcoming rpg has Naboo as one of it's planets and it is set during the original trilogy.

    Now you're thinking "so what, they may be wrong" well they went to the very top on this one to maintain continuity.

    Yes that's who i'm talking about, George Lucas. They asked him abou whether it would be right to have Naboo in and he gave permission.
  17. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well if he did intend on destroying Naboo or turning it into Dagobah, he wouldn't give that away by telling them not to include it in the game. I'm sure he'd rather have a piece of EU be inaccurate than give away a major plot point.
  18. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Absolutely. And may I remind everyone that Lucas has given "permission" to do quite a few things with the EU which is currently being contradicted by the very same Lucas in his new movies. I'll agree that Naboo isn't Dagobah the day I've seen EpIII and what I thought would happen didn't happen.
  19. Qui-Gon_Jon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 1
    Let me ask you something, Krash- when you play with your action figures and make believe that Padme and Obi-Wan are getting it on or that Jar Jar is killed in a freak snowspeeder accident- does that becaome canon? Because that's all a RPG is anyway- a format for make-believe.

    All I'm saying is that Lucas obviously ignored things that were written by APRROVED, LICENSED writers in the past and there's no reason he won't do it again. To suggest that the EU is anything more than a plaything for imaginative children is to serialize Star Wars and lower it to the level of mere Trek.
  20. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    First off, don't get up in my face because I happen like "MOST" EU stuff. As for your idea of "that's all a RPG is anyway- a format for make-believe;" funny thing is the same can be said for movies...which you seem to take as gospel.
    I'll admit that in the past, GL has written around or contrary to early EU like Marvel comics (without a second thought). What I tried to say is that I don't think Dagobah/Naboo is something he'd overlook because it is such a major plot point.
    You also said, "To suggest that the EU is anything more than a plaything for imaginative children is to serialize Star Wars and lower it to the level of mere Trek." Ok, apparently you need a hug or something when it comes to the fact there is more out there then the movies. I'm not gonna try and change your opinion; just remember that even inyour one-and-only "movie canon" it's been said that: "many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." It's a shame you can't open your perceptions to include new possiblities.

  21. Adali-Kiri Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2000
    star 4
    Krash; You have a problem with your logic here, I'm afraid. You claim that Lucas wouldnt' "overlook" the appearance of both Naboo and Dagobah on an EU map, because it would be a major plot point if the 2 turned out to be the same planet. Well, since when did Lucas start giving away "major plot points" months and years before one of his movies open...?
  22. Qui-Gon_Jon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 1
    For the record, for anybody out there who likes the EU- good for you. Enjoy the animated adventures of C-3P0 and the Ewoks. They're licensed. Many people can't see any difference between it and Lucas' own work, so for them, I'm sure it's all good.

    I am of the opinion that cinema has its own language- and within that language Lucas has his own dialect. I don't think I need to explain how Lucas' personal involvement seperates the movies from everthing else that comes in their wake. It is inimitable, and anyone who disagrees need only look at the scores of movies in the last 25 years that have tried to emulate it and failed. Most who argue that Lucas has no unique talent as a visual storyteller couldn't recognize an original anyway- even in today's vast homogenous wasteland of hacks and high-concept drivel. But that's just my personal feeling.

    If my theory turns out to be wrong and Naboo and Dagobah have nothing to do with each other- that's ok. I just enjoy the possibilites that are raised by TPM- and Lucas' repeated hints that we will see connections and relationships with the OT that haven't been seen yet. I happen to think this possibility is one of the most promising ones- but only one of many.

    So Krash and everybody else who's so irate that the movies might take precedence over other spinoff media can just relax. Relax! I'm not here to threaten anybody. I just wouldn't recommend getting too attached to your official copies of Chewbacca's death certificate or Luke and Mara's honeymoon video.

    -XOXOXO like .45 slugs,
    Jon.

  23. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    I personally don't believe the theory. But it's not because of a map or a RPG because we know for a fact that you cannot use EU to predict anything in the next films. It's just a fact, proven by precedence and by Lucas' own words. They're separate universes. Why is that such a difficult thing for people to accept?
  24. Krash RSA Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2000
    star 5
    Not exactly the direction my logic was heading Adali-Kiri, but I see your point. While the Dagobah/Naboo thing sounds interesting, and I could be wrong after all, it's more from the other way around. It's not that I believe Dagobah isn't Naboo because of an EU map so much as because I don't think GL would re-design an entire planet. There can be more then one world in the SW universe with swamps; geographically speaking Naboo and Dagobah are way different to even be possibly related. Lucas seems to be creating a vast story with a diverse range of locations, and I just think Dagobah and Naboo are slightly similar. EU has taken that and just given a more concrete explanation.
    Sorry I pissed you off Qui-Gon-Jon, but your line about "playing with your action figures" sounded more like a personal attack then a debate; and I just don't go for that. Besides, I can't understand why so many people disown any knowledge of EU. The way I see it, the more SW the better considering GL (if not directly) has some control over the product.
    And to answer the question, "since when did Lucas start giving away "major plot points" months and years before one of his movies open?" My best answer is...check out the comment in "The Beginning" about Darth Sideous's appearance first as a hologram. He said that it was done deliberatly because that's how we see him in ESB. Call my logic flawed, but wasn't that guy called Emperor Palpatine? :)
  25. Qui-Gon_Jon Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 1
    I understand the logic here, but I don't think the Sidious/Palpatine connection qualifies as giving away plot points since I don't know anyone who considers that a secret.

    And I apologize if my post about action figures was a little strident. At the time I felt Krash' preceding post was a little antagonistic.

    Shout outs to all my peeps,
    -J.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.