ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in Episode IX

The point still gets across though. No they could have chosen deathsticks or some other fictional drug. But drinking money might strike home with more people then spice.

 

Actually, throwing back to the line for the trailer that Luke spoke, about being a jedi and all that. That could work for her in that moment, Something along the lines of "The force is strong in our family. Your mother has it, You have it, and now I have it too." Or something to mirror that first trailer where she declares she's just like her father in that Sense. and Ben ask what she means and she says, "Luke is my father."

That he's not the special child. He would hate that idea it seems. And Yeah you're right on that mark. I mean if they're trying to make us all go, Oh she's a nobody, okay we get the lesson here, and then "whoa, she was actually a skywalker this whole time!" I think that could work.

No, I don't think so. Falling to the dark side seems to happen only when you personally have an issue. The darkside itself, isn't really the darkside in the sense that it's evil. Passion and such are all good things, what makes it bad is when you become way to violent, vengful, etc. In the case of Rey I don't think that would happen. I think a lot of what made Ben fall was a targeting and the fall out from the Leia reveal. I think that, if Rey was raised the same way Ben was, she'd not fall because she has the will to not let it pull her down. The same way Luke does.

Very good points! He strikes me as someone that let the emotions in him take everything personally. Like he was a spoiled brat in some ways. Maybe he believed that he couldn't be strong enough to keep his mom safe from the naysayers and the like?

The situation doesn't have to be romantic at all. There's no indication that it is. And we don't know as of yet.

Oh that's not going to happen. Rey is not that sort of character. Like Luke she's going to shore things up and by Episode IX she'll be ready to go on the offensive with the others in the Rebellion.

See that mirror scene still has me thinking of the moment in Harry Potter where he comes in and sees his parents, and then Ron saw something else. What we see in the mirror is two shadows then one then Rey. To me she never asked it, "Show me my parents" she just seemed to be seeing things that were blurred.

Honestly there's an easy way to explain everything and that's with DJ.

There are two options with this, the first is that she's DJ's kid, as he fits the bill for what Ben is describing. Or, there's another option there.

Ben seems to have been roughly the age he is now when he left Luke and trashed the Temple. Keep in mind a lot of people assumed that Luke was away a long time, but in the crawl it just says he's vanished, meaning that it hasn't been that long a time. Also with the way that Poe's comics are going and his chapter in Before the Awakening, it's clear that Leia's only been looking, at most a year or two for him. Which means that Luke probably was trying to get at Ben earlier and didn't just leave right away. If Ben was let's say at youngest 25 at the moment when this whole situation happened, then then we know that Luke had been training him for a while (as per the art books indication that he had to have been about 12 or 13 ish when he came by Luke).

Now the other thing we know is that Snoke had an apprentice as per the info from the Souvenir guide. Given that Star Wars is a Serial and we've already seen art work depicting the idea of a female darksider possibly having a relationship with Luke, it's not that hard to assume then that there's a chance this may come up again. Also Snoke's issues seems very personal, so I wonder about that plus the attacking and the whole thing with his face.

So, for the moment, let's assume a few things. Lets assume that Snoke did have a female apprentice before Ben. Let's assume that he was worming his way into Ben's mind, but lets also assume that in the mean time he'd sent off his apprentice to go defeat Luke. The two meet and hit it off, as she's planning on betraying and killing him for her master, but can't. She decides to ditch the plan and pretty much tells Snoke to screw off and goes off with Luke. Ten years after Ben is born, the two have a child. They were working with the kids at the temple and Ben joins them there. However she can sense her old master and realizes what may be going on with Ben. Both afraid and worried for her child and Ben, she leaves, planning on two things. One to hid the child where no one can find her, not Luke, not Snoke, not anyone. She also blocks the force, cuts her child off from it so that Snoke can't sense her. Then, along with her friend, DJ, they go to find a place to hide a young Rey. DJ suggests Jakku as he knows a guy there, Unkarr, who can hold her. Unkarr makes a deal with him, using the term booze as a code or something, and Mara, for the sake of this I'm calling her that, tells Rey she'll be back for her.

Now either DJ betrays her, she dumps him off some where, or they split ways after the situation with Rey. Or he helps her get in to where she needs to go, and he takes off. In any case said apprentice confronts Snoke, and either he kills her, or she manages to escape but wounds him. Once she escapes she flees to the outer rim, and doesn't go back for Rey out of fear that Snoke will then go after her and get at Rey. Meanwhile, you have Luke dealing with Ben, we know what happens there. Because Mara cut herself off from the force, Luke can't feel her either, so he assumes both she and their child are dead.

The reason I suspect DJ plays a part in all of this, is because of the shadow. A lot of people were like Han, but I have to wonder if that's DJ's shadow in that moment. If Rey, as a child, only saw him around her mom, she may well think that DJ's her dad, thus the idea of a nobody.

 

Again - Rey being Luke’s daughter doesn’t make Rey/Luke the main focus any more than Kylo being Leia’s son makes That relationship the main focus.

What it does:

- Allows Rey and Kylo’s pasts to be tied together, and could add context to Kylo’s corruption and fall and a way he can be redeemed - through the healing of past emotional wounds. It could also connect Rey to Snoke.

- Gives her motivations beyond simply “I want to help my friends,” which is extremely generic. *Every* hero has that motivation.

- Let’s Rey’s missing family story have a happy ending

- Makes the Skywalker legacy hers as well. Which has the added benefit of making the ST-OT-PT connection more cohesive.

- Gives Rey personal drama, which otherwise appears to be resolved by the end of TLJ. Otherwise...the personal drama in Ep 9 is all Kylo’s.

- Put more focus on Rey, vs the story essentially revolving around Kylo, as his drama (and Luke’s drama) are her’s as well. It gives her a past - what happened to her, and why, and how did that affect the Skywalkers?

And that doesn’t include all the elements of the story thus far it would explain that otherwise require “Because the Force” or creative headcanon hand-waving. (Because, imo, she’s been intended as a Skywalker from the beginning...)

 

This isn't necessary. Snoke corrupted Ben Solo. We know that. Rey being related or not to him doesn't really affect that. A sympathetic backstory for Ben would be to show what happened between him and Snoke. So I don't know. I don't understand why their pasts need to be tied together. I know they aren't tied together because Kylo doesn't recognize Rey from his past. She doesn't recognize him either. They both feel a mysterious connection in the Force between them, however.

I want to help my friends and I want to help my family are very similar motivations (they are in fact Luke's OT motivations). Rey is worried about Finn in TLJ. She wants to help him. DR described the relationship with Finn as like found-family. It doesn't matter that Rey and Finn are not blood related. Rey relates to Kylo in TLJ. She wants to help him (though that is secondary to her main agenda).

DR has said her story is about found family. Her belonging is ahead of her. I don't believe a happy ending is necessary. Not everyone comes from a wonderful past. Not everyone can fix the past. Sometimes one needs to move on. Rey can find a happy ending in the new relationships she forms.

Rey doesn't need the Skywalker legacy. She is important as she is.

This is like saying orphans can't attach to people like Finn and Kylo and have personal drama. I disagree that the only personal drama is Kylo's. Also the Rey/Kylo drama is far from resolved.

I think we might get more about Rey's past than about it having to do with the Skywalker's past. She can have her own independent past, you know.

This goes back to how some fans can't accept Rey is important unless she's a Skywalker. Reywalker is just as headcanon as everything else.

Anyway, I don't agree these add much to Rey's story. We have a compelling Rey/Kylo drama as is (i.e. a compelling Force drama). I think it's exciting to have a main FS character who is the new great hope for the galaxy and NOT a Skywalker. To me, this entire thing is about Skywalker-focus and that some fans can only accept a story for Rey Skywalker or Solo. I don't know how else to see it.

And at this point I feel like it wouldn't be a very good story since she can only have a living relationship with Kylo. It's like sorry kid, those people you thought were your parents are dead, and guess what so are your actual parents because you didn't know Luke was your dad before he died. Whoops. I mean Luke's happy ending was he could redeem his father who then died, and his Aunt and Uncle died... Wait actually his happy ending is in relationships with Leia and Han (living people). It doesn't matter if they are related or not, they were close before Luke knew Leia was his sister.

I honestly think the ST may be about two soulmates in the Force (for the Force story).

 

You asked what’s to be gained by Rey being Luke’s daughter.

If their pasts are tied together, than Ben’s story is her story, his troubles are her troubles. It keeps more of a focus on Rey. Narrative efficiency and balance.

None of this is necessary. Star Wars isn’t necessary. I don’t buy into that framing of what we’re discussing.

Yes, if Rey is actually connected to the prior two trilogies, and if her past is tied up in the troubles of the Skywalkers (and are thus her troubles, too), that enriches the spectrum of her motivations. I’m not talking about “who does Rey care about.” Obviously if he had living family, she’d care about them too. Although the people in her life aren’t interchangable. Her feeling a connection and emotional investment in one character isn’t exactly the same thing as her feeling a connectiom to and having an emotional investment in any other character.

I’m talking about Rey’s goals, and the injuries inflicted about her, and upon those she loved and loves and her past, and her experiences. In my personal experiance consiming stories, these things tend to be relevant.

DR has said her story is about found family. Her belonging is ahead of her. I don't believe a happy ending is necessary. Not everyone comes from a wonderful past. Not everyone can fix the past. Sometimes one needs to move on.[/quote]

DR has not said Rey’s story is *only* about found family.

And yes, her belonging is ahead of her. Which could very well include Luke, who will be coming back (just as Maz said he would).

This story, and this Saga, is about family. Not “suck it up and just suck it up.” The ST is *not* about letting the past die or killing the past. It’s about letting burdens of the past go and preserving what is good about that past. RJ has said this explicitly, and it’s amply demonstrated by TLJ itself. “The past can’t be fixed and must be left behind” is simply not the message of this story.

I’m sorry that you don’t care if Rey has a happy ending or not. Thankfully, I don’t think LFL agrees.

Again, this is not about “needs” or “doesn’t need.”

Rey’s legacy being the Skywalker legacy is not about Rey being important. It’s about the Saga being as much her story as it is Anakin’s and Luke’s.

Also, your words seem to me to assume that I think Rey will be retconned to be a Skywaller. My position is that she’s been a Skywalker from day one.

They could concoct brand-new drama between Rey and Finn and Poe and company. But the remaining established, compelling, story-defining personal drama remaining at the center of the story would still be Kylo’s.

 

Seeing as many of you do not trust Kylo does anyone here actually beileve Kylo was telling the truth?

 

I believe in what Rey said, her parents were nobodies. Now about Kylo saying they sold her... I don't know

I really tried to understand your theory but... There was no reason to push a Reysky reveal to 9. None, especially when Luke (very alive) was there with her in AHCH-TO in The Last Jedi. They had two movies to reveal that Luke was her father and it never happened

 

She did not seem like a slave to me.

 

There certainly was reason, imo. The later it’s revealed, the less Rey would be primarily defined as “Luke Skywalker’s daughter.”

A reveal in TLJ would have made what happened to Rey primarily about Luke. Now that I’ve seen TLJ, and what they were doing with Luke, that became clear to me.

Ep 9 may seem late for a reveal. But it’s also late to explain what on earth is driving Kylo and why Snoke was able to “turn his heart.” And yet presumably he’s not just power-hungry and wishing his parents has been around more as a kid.

The way it looks like they’re telling the story, given two movies so far, it makes sense to me.

 

Did you notice that Rey and Kylo already feel connected without a shared past? Why do they need to have the same story? Why does Rey's story being Ben's story instead of her own story help keep the focus on Rey? To me that robs her of her independent background.

It's like the motivations she does have are being ignored. Rey was abandoned. She's seeking belonging. These aren't small things. Her abandonment and the theme of "come back!" is in her story and her emotions. Things like the pain behind "You had a father who loved you, who gave a damn about you!" (i.e. something I didn't have that I would give anything to have had); the prospect of selling BB-8 for food bringing forth feelings from when something like that happened to her--when someone who was supposed to be taking care of her sold her; relating to Kylo because he feels like he was thrown away and betrayed by his family... All of this is in Rey's story. She has troubles a plenty. Troubles that are her own. She doesn't need to be handed Kylo's troubles. Do you not notice these things or consider them invalid, or what? These things drive Rey. They drive her decisions. They're important.

Nothing in my post was saying it did. Rey is forming connections with people. Every connection is unique and means something different. This is how people form relationships with other people.

You don't say?

Actually Maz didn't really say that. It's implied but not said. And Luke already came back and fulfilled that function in the story. I do believe that Luke and Rey will still have interactions though. Luke will appear as a ghost.

Rey did preserve of the past what she can. It's just her parents are dead, is so far the story. Moving on from the past that she's been stuck in =/= killing the past. Kylo shows the distinction here. He can't move on, he's stuck in the past forever, he wants to destroy and destroy. Kylo wanted Rey to also be stuck in the past, resentful about what her parents did, angry about it forever, and to join him in burning everything down. He was inviting her to tear open these wounds and keep them open and bleeding and never healing, because that's what he does. He doesn't know another way. Rey learned how to put the past to bed and move on without doing the let's kill the past thing.

This is mischaracterizing what I said and doing so in a rather manipulative fashion. It is unappreciated.

It IS her story. I feel like people just don't want to see this. I think it's circular reasoning. People think that if Rey isn't a Skywalker relative the story can't be about her. But she's the main character. Anyway, there's no hope to ever get anywhere with this. It's been the difference between Rey Sky/Solo and Random from the very beginning, probably before TFA even came out.

It feels retconned to me, especially after TLJ.

Did you notice how there was this huge drama between Rey and Kylo, and between Rey and Luke? It was like in TLJ. And Rey wasn't a Skywalker and still had these dramas.

I am not sure that more information about Rey's past would come from Kylo. The person we're waiting for in this is Rey herself. For two films now, others have tried to inform her about things pertaining to her past. Rey keeps it locked inside and she doesn't talk about it much. Something is waiting. And I think that something comes from Rey herself. Both Maz and Kylo have said she knows the truth. Rey is the person we need to hear from.

If you were saying that those who don't subscribe to Reywalker are hand-waving headcanon and so forth, I think I was addressing what you said. I've seen Reywalker and Rey Solo as full to the brim with headcanon from the beginning (I mean since I joined this forum). I think there is a story in which she isn't a relation of the Skywalkers and I don't understand why that story seems to go unnoticed.

Oh, so it's a surface reading? Because ReySky is soooo deep?

I think that what people see and find meaningful has to do with what we are debating. Oh, and I think what people want has a lot to do with it too. But I was originally debating need because I don't see Rey Sky as offering much to this story.

The Skywalker Saga began with a boy who was a slave. He was "born of the Force" to counter the darkness in the galaxy. He didn't come from a special lineage. He took a bad path. It ends with a girl who was a sort-of slave. She was born very strong in the Force with a special destiny to counter the darkness in the galaxy, or perhaps to heal it. She didn't come from a special lineage. She, like Anakin, was not related to any of the main players in the galaxy. Anakin didn't have a shared history with any of them either.

It kind of comes down to in one sense what the Skywalker Saga means. Is it simply about Skywalkers over the generations? Is it about following them like we're keeping up with Kardashians? Is it possible the Skywalkers had a beginning, a middle, and now an end? What is the true meaning of the Skywalker legacy?

So far Rey has to forge her own path in things, determine her own purpose. No one is telling her how she is the special Chosen One. No one is telling her how she is So-And-So's daughter, which makes her super special. It's all kind of in-line with the seeming anti-entitlement and anti-elitism ideas in the ST. It's also in-line with how one doesn't need a special bloodline to be great, and special bloodlines do not ensure greatness.

 

If you were saying that those who don't subscribe to Reywalker are hand-waving headcanon and so forth, I think I was addressing what you said. I've seen Reywalker and Rey Solo as full to the brim with headcanon from the beginning (I mean since I joined this forum). I think there is a story in which she isn't a relation of the Skywalkers and I don't understand why that story seems to go unnoticed.

Oh, so it's a surface reading? Because ReySky is soooo deep?

I think that what people see and find meaningful has to do with what we are debating. But I was originally debating need because I don't see Rey Sky as offering much to this story. The Skywalker Saga began with a boy who was a slave. He was "born of the Force" to counter the darkness in the galaxy. He didn't come from a special lineage. He took a bad path. It ends with a girl who was a sort-of slave. She was born very strong in the Force with the special destiny to counter the darkness in the galaxy, or perhaps to heal it. She didn't come from a special lineage. She, like Anakin, was not related to any of the main players in the galaxy.

It kind of comes down to in one sense what the Skywalker Saga means. Is it simply about Skywalkers over the generations? Is it about following them like we're keeping up with Kardashians? Is it possible the Skywalkers had a beginning, a middle, and now an end? What is the true meaning of the Skywalker legacy?[/QUOTE]

If TLJ made sense to you at face value, that’s great. You do you. (

It didn’t to me. But I’m happy with my reading of it.

(The Reylo interpretations I’ve read don’t take TLJ at face value/surface read, either, incidentally. My reference to “surface read” had nothing to do with implying intellectual depth or lack thereof of the viewer or - frankly - the quality of the movie.)

 

How I feel reading some of these theories...

 

Condescension alert!

 

I feel like a lot of people believe Kylo, but more importantly people believe Rey. Kylo's version makes more sense and matches the story we've been given more than any of the theories( mine included) that have been on here. I think Kylo had more info about her parents than she did after his vision. I don't know if she knew they were dead on Jakku or what they had as jobs, she just knew they abandoned her and never came back to get her. Even if his vision was altered, like his memory( not the same as a vision, but for some reason still treated like one) of Luke, it would not be to the extent that he wouldn't recognize Luke and mistake him and his aunt for junk traders. And if he saw Luke he wouldn't need to lie about that because it would help his case. Not only did Luke abandon Rey, he let his daughter come face his murderous nephew and SNOKE alone showing he doesn't care about her still. I still haven't heard a theory that makes sense of how she's related to Luke and why no one recognizes her. Not a theory on why it's still "technically" possible, but a theory that actually works w/ TFA and TLJ on what happened to Rey and Luke when she was a kid.

There is a lot of reasons for that. She may have bought her freedom over time. Also slaves can be given a lot of autonomy as long as they are still dependent on their "owner" Rey still needed Unkar for food and he controlled travel off of the planet. I agree she seemed to have free reign but she's still beholden to him. This way Rey has to take care of herself and he only has to provide food and only as much as he sees fit. He doesn't provide her shelter or tools so that saves him money. Anakin and Shmi were slaves but that had that small little hut and seemed to be doing fine( its been a while since I've seen the PT so apologies if I forgot something) and they weren't miserable. I think that's why they had to tell us they were slaves because they didn't look like the slaves that we are used to seeing.

 

I can see Rey as Luke's daughter if he doesn't know. It all would lead back into the rabbit hole about that from before TLJ came out.

And it's silly, but I still am half serious about considering Kenobi... *puts on dunce cap*

 

I'm of two minds about it: I believe him but I can also see Ep. 9 revealing that Kylo was incorrect or straight up lying and that Rey herself doesn't know the full truth about her own parentage and that she's Luke's kid.

As @cerealbox mentioned this might be an occam's razor situation and Rey might really be a Random, something I'm cool with now, but I think the writers have left just enough room for a late related reveal.

 

For me, Occam’s Razor applies when considering possibilities that all make sense in context but are merely varying degrees of complexity.

I do not see that as the case here. I simply can’t make the ST make sense - especially as a part of a larger story, which it has been billed as - with “Rey Random.” TFA made it difficult; I found that TLJ made it impossible.

Although obviously mine is a minority position at this point

 

If she ended up related to someone, I'd laugh so hard because Star Wars is known for retcon and there's one faction it would completely devastate.

 

Well... I don't know what will happen with her parentage (probably end up staying random) but I think that faction is going to be completely devastated regardless because I don't see that happening in the end

 

I think she could easily end up being related; that would give a whole new twist to the Rey-Kylo dynamic. I think it could easily go either way.

I don't think it would be a retcon though, even though that's possible. JJ has said too many things for me to think that there isn't likely more to this. Speaking of which....

Coming from Kylo, one should always be wary... and of course shortly after the film's release, Rian said that he believes Kylo was telling the truth 'from a certain point of view'. Either he's trolling us, or there's more to come.

 

I hear yeah but for me I wouldn't be surprised if Rey remains random even if that does create some thematic/narrative inconsistencies and problems for some members of the fandom.

As you know if you scrutinize the OT you'll find a good handful of flaws and problems with the storytelling in those films. Part of me can't help but think that if the internet was around when the OT came out people would've been trying to come up with solutions for the problems in those movies that the writers never intended to answer because they, the writers didn't consider them problems. That might be the same case for the ST. I hope it's not but it could be. Rey being random, her generic motivation to help her friends, Kylo's vague and heretofore underdeveloped backstory...it could all remain as is by the time Ep. 9 ends.

 

There’s a SG this time and they/the authors have said they’ve seeded the EU with stuff that will become relevant in upcoming movies. (This is clearly on display in LoLS, for example - an absolute must-read for TLJ, imo.)

Simply put...if one examines the long litany of statements that have been put out by KK, PH, JJ, RJ, EU authors, and other LFL people regarding the development of the ST, I think it becomes pretty clear that they can’t all be taken at face value, or as the entire or literal truth. At the very least, any claim that they’re literally making the ST up as they go along is highly questionable. I think it’s safer to assume that there gas been significantly more planning and coordination and attempts to maintain consistancy on non-trivial story elements than one might believe if one, say, has only read some RJ statements.

 

Ah good point about the story group!

 

What makes someone a somebody or a nobody and how would you tell the difference?
Could a somebody sit in a cantina without being recognized? (Luke in LoLS #1)
How about searching for salvage on Jakku? (Luke in LoLS #2)
Or perhaps fly a junker A-Wing and not even have their name recognized? (LoLS #6)
Perhaps the real lesson they're going for is the distinction between nobody and somebody is meaningless?

 

I think "Lucasfilm is lying to us!" theories already was used is so many situations (Rey being Jyn Erso daughter when Pablo said she isn't, Luke being in Rogue One, etc) that it doesn't make sense anymore