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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in Episode IX

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by sheri1967, Dec 12, 2017.

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  1. milena

    milena Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 5, 2018
    Oh dear...I do hope fans are not putting their hopes on JJ retconning things. Personally, I think they will just move forward with the intended story.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
  2. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    Damn, you know even more about me than I do. I already said I don't care about whether her parentage changes or not. No one ever thought that only Skywalkers are strong with the Force so that's not a point either. Especially when Rey is literally only powerful because she's Kylo's equal so it's even more of a non-point. Her being related would bring an actual explanation to why they're connected and have the final chapter actually have some bearing on the overall saga.

    I didn't say TFA was only a redo either, I said that JJ wanted to recreate his favorite things about the OT. I don't think that's even debatable.
     
  3. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Chosen One star 4

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    Sep 20, 2001
    Why is Rey important with equal power, equalizing strengths, and attributes while not being a Skywalker?

    We could have a discussion about moving beyond light and dark, Jedi and Sith and talk about the recurring themes of the Sacred Couple that keeps popping up in different religions and mythos. Because that is another representation of two halves of a whole—much like Shiva and Shakti.
     
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  4. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 20, 2016
    Uh, no, I'm going by what you are arguing & what you've said in past discussions. Again, if you don't care why are you even discussing it?
    It's a point to people saying that being a Skywalker is the only (or best) explanation for Rey's power. Rey is NOT only powerful because she's 'Kylo's equal', did you get that from what Snoke said? That was HIS opinion, and his opinion was also that Kylo needed to kill his parents to get stronger, so he's not the best person to listen to, tbh. Rey is powerful because the Cosmic Force chose her to be, and I'd say only 2 movies in we don't know they full 'why' for that yet. We've already gotten actual explanations for their connection however; #1 a connection through the Force was created when they were in each other's minds & #2 they are the only two people in the Galaxy with the same level of power, thus they have a sort of affinity there as well. #3 Snoke bridged their minds so they could see/touch/communicate. Not sure how Rey not being related would prevent the ST from having bearing on the overall saga, especially since we've had three Skywalkers with serious roles in the films & affecting the plot of said films.

    Okay, so now he's not retconning it, RJ is just lying when he explains why he chose that background for Rey & he & JJ are just playing the long game reveal for the last film? Just so JJ can recreate what he liked about the OT? But then RJ has described Rey & Kylo's hand touch scene as he has, aware that they are actually cousins?
     
  5. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    Again, if you don't care why are you even discussing it?
    Because you're replying to me.

    Rey is NOT only powerful because she's 'Kylo's equal', did you get that from what Snoke said? That was HIS opinion
    Um no, there was nothing to suggest that Snoke was lying. It's the only explanation we've gotten about her becoming extremely powerful in three days.

    Rey is powerful because the Cosmic Force chose her to be
    What? Did you somehow get that from the movie? That wasn't even slightly hinted at.

    We've already gotten actual explanations for their connection however; #1 a connection through the Force was created when they were in each other's minds
    Again, did you get that from the movie? Because that's not in the movie. At all. Nothing suggests that.

    Okay, so now he's not retconning it, RJ is just lying when he explains why he chose that background for Rey & he & JJ are just playing the long game reveal for the last film?
    Lol what, how did you get that from what I said? Not what I said at all. And Rian was the one to say that JJ is still free to change her parentage.
     
  6. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 20, 2016
    When I don't care about something I don't talk about it! To each their own, I guess!
    It's explained as such in the TLJ novel by Jason Fry, who worked directly with Rian Johnson & the TLJ scripts.
    The TFA script explains that as seen here;
    THEY'RE BOTH SURPRISED: they react to a feeling that passes between them -- AN ENERGY THEY RECOGNIZE IN EACH OTHER. And then it's gone. Adversaries again.
    but yes it was further clarified by the Story Group members on the SW show & the TLJ novel (it's also how Rey learns how to Jedi Mind Trick to stormtrooper, & gets Kylo's fighting skills)
     
  7. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    If they didn't bother explaining it in the movie then it doesn't matter. If Rian really intended her to be powerful because the Cosmic Force then it would have been in the movie. It's clearly an afterthought/personal interpretation by Jason Fry. The only information about her powers that Rian deemed necessary for the audience to know was that Rey is strong because Kylo is strong, so that's what matters. 99% of the audience isn't reading the book and even less so the script lol...

    Their bond starting in TFA is also directly contradicted by TLJ and that part of the book is vague enough to mean literally anything.
     
  8. IncessantRamblings

    IncessantRamblings Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 20, 2016
    No it isn't, there's a difference between their connection & how Snoke 'bridged their minds' also if Snoke was responsible totally for their connection, they wouldn't have been able to connect after his death, no? Rayne Roberts made it clear that the connection beginning in TFA was Lawrence Kasdan's idea.
    Huh, yet you don't believe that if JJ wanted Rey to be a Skywalker he wouldn't have put it in the film?
    Nope, it wasn't. It was directly from Rian/LFL. And actually the Cosmic Force is touched upon when Rey & Luke are meditating in TLJ (life, death, etc.) & in the TFA VD (it has been dormant since the Jedi temple was destroyed).
     
  9. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    No it isn't, there's a difference between their connection & how Snoke 'bridged their minds' also if Snoke was responsible totally for their connection, they wouldn't have been able to connect after his death, no?
    Clearly it's possible since they did just that. Just because he connected them doesn't mean they stop being connected when he dies. They're already connected.

    Huh, yet you don't believe that if JJ wanted Rey to be a Skywalker he wouldn't have put it in the film?
    Are you planning to stop putting words in my mouth any time soon? Because it's getting old.

    Nope, it wasn't. It was directly from Rian/LFL. And actually the Cosmic Force is touched upon when Rey & Luke are meditating in TLJ (life, death, etc.) & in the TFA VD (it has been dormant since the Jedi temple was destroyed).
    Lol... You don't think they'd adress it in the movie if it truly was the plan? If that's supposed to be a big part of Rey getting her powers that they would have said so, period. And not contradicted it by giving an alternate explaination in the actual movie.
     
  10. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    But why is Rey as strong in the Force as Kylo? Because the Cosmic Force willed it (“darkness rises and light to meet it”). She was chosen to be the light side that counters the rise in the dark side. Snoke says that he told Kylo if he rose in power in the dark side, his light side counterpart would rise as well. It is about balance.

    It is not an afterthought by the author. It fits with the movie’s description of the Force (when Luke describes it and Rey sees the balance) and with earlier Star Wars precedent. This is not the first time the Force has willed things into being in Star Wars to balance things. It is the same with Anakin. Shmi become pregnant with him without a father and he was the “chosen one” to end the Sith because the Force willed it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  11. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    It doesn't matter if it "technically fits", it's still not in the movie so it doesn't matter. Rian could have included it but he didn't.
     
  12. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    We disagree then because I believe it was in the movie based on the reasons I gave.

    In Ep. 7 we learn there has been “an awakening” and in Ep. 8, we learn that the awakening is Rey as the light rising to meet the darkness. Snoke said darkness rises and light to meet it. Rey is the one chosen by the light to balance/counter the darkness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  13. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 14, 2000
    Snoke is noting a corrolation, not a causation. Rey was born when Ben was 10 and presumably wasn’t a dark sider. She doesn’t have great power simply because Kylo does.
     
  14. Darth Gummybear

    Darth Gummybear Jedi Master star 3

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    Apr 15, 2016
    Rey was likely always Force sensitive. However, Snoke is stating a causation when it comes to the awakening. He specifically says the light rises to meet the dark. He told Kylo his counterpart would rise as he became more powerful; that is causation, not correlation. Rey was awakened, although she already existed, to serve a role: to balance the Force, like how Anakin was born to serve a role in defeating the Sith to bring balance to the Force.

    Rey says there has always been something inside her, and now it is awake.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  15. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 14, 2000
    You’re born with Force sensativity. There’s nothing in canon I know of indicating otherwise.

    Snoke thought Luke was that light. And Snoke didn’t think Luke had grown powerful because Kylo had grown more powerful...

    “Darkness rises, and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.”

    No - “his counterpart would get stronger as he did” is not causation. If he had said his counterpart would get stronger because he did, you would be right.

    The fact that two things change or grow in tandom does not mean one is causing the other. There might be a third thing causing both.

    Yes, Rey has “awakened” in the Force. But she didn’t “awaken” when Ben fell to the DS.

    There’s still more for us to learn.
     
  16. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    Not at all. That would be totally against the way JJ works.

    TLJ in no way said anything of any real objective substance to what happened to her parents/family so the question is completely open. JJ has his Rey's family leaving in spaceship for a reason in his mind so one would expect he will return to that vision since he's back making IX.

    We don't know what JJ knows and what he knew at the time of the plan with Rey for TLJ and CT's IX.

    As it is TLJ does nothing to counter whatever JJ had in mind since clearly Rey's vision in TFA where the parents leave Jakku and didn't come back (but Rey is clinging to hope that they will) to TLJ where they didn't leave Jakku and are dead and Rey apparently knew this all along. If JJ wanted them to be dead on Jakku he obviously wouldn't say so but at least he'd allow for that possibility unless the plan was for a total mislead all the time.

    The point being he can do whatever he likes and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. He has total control over IX because they can't fire him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
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  17. Birkendoc

    Birkendoc Chosen One star 4

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    Sep 20, 2001
    You really think they are going to to retcon Rey as a Skywalker (or Solo?)

    I spent all of fourth, fifth and most of sixth grade convinced that Vader had lied about Luke’s parentage.

    Sometimes the most cutting and simple explanation is the truth presented on the screen.

    No mental gymnastics or mystery box revealed at the 11th hour is needed.

    She is no one with an different lineage. Even she admits she has known this for a long time.
     
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  18. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    ReySky retcon is possible. That’s all I was saying at least. Rian was the one who said it’s not set in stone in the first place.
     
  19. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    I don't think she was ever either of those anyway at this point so "revealing" she isn't is a non-reveal reveal.

    Which are two different versions so far that still don't objectively address the situation. One set of "parents" left Jakku while another set are buried there.

    I don't see how the "no one" angles works other than a "no one" like Anakin was a no one at best. Certainly not an actual no one like any of the other Jedi we have seen from TPM and before that.

    Anything Rey does can be turned around from one scene to another so nothing has changed in that regard.
     
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  20. darkcide

    darkcide Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    JJ later said that Rey's parents WERE NOT KNOWN t
    o her in TFA.
     
  21. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 14, 2000
    Yes. One could say he was telling the truth, then lied about telling the truth, or that he was telling the truth facpov and then told the truth about facpov.
     
  22. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 6, 2015
    Unless, of course, he knew you wouldn't believe the truth, even if he told it to you.
     
  23. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 14, 2000
    And now we see why trying to parse seemingly revealing creator statements gets us nowhere ;)
     
  24. rorow1

    rorow1 Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 21, 2017
    Those two things are not necessarily opposed. Does Jakku seem to have a bunch of watering holes at which her parents could get drunk? Her parents could trade enough junk to leave, get drunk and return back to Jakku for work until they made enough through trading to repeat the process. They didn't have to die soon after the last time Rey saw them, they could have actually lived long lives( not likely) just without their daughter and died on Jakku years after they sold her. Rey's vision is just the last time she may have interacted with them and all the info Kylo provided was probably new to her. I don't think she knew their professions or how they died, just that they abandoned her.

    We also don't know what questions about her parents arose when the force awakened in her. Where they FS, like she is? Did they interact with any of these mythic figures? Did they have a destiny or important mission and that's why they abandoned her? Did they do it to protect her? The truth is they just sold her for drinking money. I think Rey's definition of "nobodies" was not about them not being from some special lineage but being the type of people she can't look to as a way to define herself. With her awakening "powers" she is looking for answers and someone to tell her who she is. She spent her life living in denial convinced those horrible people were coming back for her. When not only were they never coming back for her, they are probably the last people she should want to show her "her place in all of this" and her use of nobodies is acknowledging that fact about them.
     
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  25. darkcide

    darkcide Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 17, 2003
    When Snoke used the force to hold Rey aloft in TLJ,and she was in great pain,he was manipulating the midichlorians in her body to create life,the same thing that he did to Shmi Skywalker long before that. Snoke-"Give me,EVERYTHING."
     
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