ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in Episode VII

Interesting that this topic is being discussed on the 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

 

Despite the fact that you are taking things WAY too far, we only have to work with what happened in this work of fiction. What Anakin did as Vader does not take away the fact that he was also the one who saved the galaxy. Luke was only a savior by proxy.

 

At best, it is absolutely disgusting that you are even trying to link a discussion about Star Wars to the horror and tragedy that happened to 6 million Jews. Please log off for a while and come back when you can be decent.

 

I guess it's hard to credit someone with saving the galaxy when they were kind of responsible for making it a horrible place in the first instance. Darth Vader wreaked some major havoc. I don't see it as "saving" necessarily. Maybe restoring balance but not saving.

 

What I meant was that the talk about redemption is a bit hollow. I've been to Auschwitz, it's absolutely horrible. Yet, it's an experience every human should have. I don't think the death of children can be so easily compared to ANYTHING.

And I believe it's pretty well known that there are Nazi parallels (purposely) with the Empire. Even the uniforms. The mass annihilation of lives (Alderaan) which is the whole purpose of the Death Star... There are plenty of analyses out there on this issue.

And this is so off topic it's ridiculous.

Sorry for the double post.

 

We're talking spiritual redemption in a science fantasy movie... I don't think it warrants naval gazing about whether Anakin deserved spiritual forgiveness for his actions as Darth Vader.

 

I think it goes both ways, both Luke and Anakin's love for each other is what saved the galaxy and it helps that Luke was the only OT character that saw the good in Vader and that thought that Vader was redeemable (and even tried and succeeded in redeeming him).

 

You are correct, they do go hand in hand. Vader doesn't save the galaxy if Luke doesn't appeal to his compassion. That said, Vader DID save the galaxy. To wrap this back around to the topic, I feel that due to how Luke's/Vader's compassion for each other being the catalyst to saving the galaxy, I could picture him thinking it would be good to go to have a kid...

...Named Rey.

 

This thread, I've seen everything on it

 

Incoming Mob.

 

This thread

 

Fitting name for the daughter of the son of the suns wouldn't you say...

 

For my vote I go with Rey being both the daughter of Han and Leia AND Luke's apprentice before he vanished (i.e. 1 &4) because that ties the legacies of ALL SIX of the previous leads (Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan, Luke, Leia and Han) together into a single character that requires almost no exposition to explain her background. She would be the granddaughter of Anakin and Padme and daughter of Han and Leia and the student of Luke who himself was the student of Obi-Wan. No other variant proposed (i.e. Luke's daughter or random orphan) combines ALL the legacies together that efficiently and that's always been something Star Wars has excelled at... their stories are TIGHT without much extraneous detail.

Now a bit off topic, but...

They weren't executed so whether they 'deserved it' is irrelevant. They were uniformed members of the Imperial Military serving aboard a legitimate military target that had already been used to murder billions of non-combatants (a war crime) and under Palpatine and Tarkin would very likely have been used to murder billions more in their efforts to bring the systems into line. Their vessel (different in scale, but not in kind from other warships) was engaged by an opposing military force adhering to the rules of war (i.e. recognizable uniforms/markings, rank structure, avoids civilian targets, etc.) that destroyed the Death Star in battle. While the loss of all hands was unfortunate, it was by no means immoral.

It should further be noted that the Rebels didn't even hide their approach or target during the battle, but simply flew in guns blazing and went for the target of their attack. The Imperials quickly analyzed their attack patterns and determined their target and that there was a risk to them. Tarkin could have ordered an evacuation of the station at that point, but chose not to. It was also noted during the briefing that the Death Star's ONLY vulnerable point was the thermal exhaust port that would destroy the entire station nearly instantaneously (i.e. there was no way to merely disable the superlaser or otherwise cripple the station).

Despite the scale of the lives lost (which still pales in comparison to the number of non-combatants the Death Star murdered), the action was entirely justifiable under just war theory... it was about as clean a win as you could possibly get in an actual war.

 

How exactly am I asserting that "thematic connections don't seem to be relevant"? Be specific.

Because I never said any such thing. What I think is irrelevant is your idea that only a father-child connection is thematically valid. What I believe is simplistic and kindergarten logic is your assertion that because the saga featured a parent-child connection before, it MUST repeat itself and feature a father-child connection again in the next chapter or else it doesn't make any sense. To me, that shows an unblieveable lack of imagination.

Can one single instance of something (in this case, a father-son SW story) constitute a pattern?

pat·tern
noun \ˈpa-tərn\

: a repeated form or design especially that is used to decorate something
: the regular and repeated way in which something happens or is done
: something that happens in a regular and repeated way

The father-son story has not been repeated in SW, so it's not a pattern -- yet. IF it gets repeated again in the ST, then you will have yourself a pattern.

Of course it wasn't random. Leaving aside for the moment the fact that the OT came first, I have never disagreed with the idea that the SW saga is about the Skywalker family. But I strongly disagree with you about what makes a meaningful family connection. I have said over and over again, the Skywalker family is bigger than just Luke. And there can be deep and meaningful family connections besides the one between a father and his child.

It was firmly established in the OT that Luke loves Leia very deeply. The one time Luke almost went over to the dark side was when Vader threatened Leia. So yes, I think the bond between Luke and his niece could be very deep and meaningful.

Where in the heck are you getting that from?? You can't just pull things out of thin air. If you are going to make an accusation against me, be specific. Use specific quotes to back up your accusations, or else it doesn't mean anything.

I have stated many times on these boards that I have no problem whatsoever with Luke having a child. But I have a huge problem with Luke having a motherless child (e.g. the dead wife trope). So what?

As it happens, I am convinced that Rey is indeed a Solo. I gave my reasons for believing that earlier ITT.

Oh, please. If you don't understand what I've said, that's on you. I have explained again and again that I think the next-generation hero doesn't have to be Luke's biological child. Having the new hero be Luke's niece or even a random orphan that Luke trains is equally as valid, IMO. Instead of agreeing to disagree, now you're resorting to personal insults.

Actually what you said was:

You didn't say Vincent was a "symptom." You laid the failure of Godfather III squarely on the fact that Vincent was "NOT the son/daughter of Michael." And I still think that's a load of hooey.

You want me to get into more detail about why that film didn't work? This is the Rey thread and we're already off-topic enough as it is. First of all, yes, Sofia was a disaster in the role of Mary. That;s a huge part of why the movie failed. But I also said it was poor writing. More specifically: 1) the insipid forbidden romance between Vincent and Mary, 2) the stupid conspiracy-theory rewriting of history making John Paul I's death a murder, 3) one of the dullest villains of all time in the person of Don Lucchesi 4) no exploration at all of how or why Connie forgave Michael for killing their brother 5) making Michael Corleone too weak and indecisive. And that's just for starters. I could go on and on. But again, we're already off-topic enough as it is.

 

That's not true is it? I didn't state that ONLY a father and child connection was thematically valid. I was making a case for a father-child connection being stronger than an uncle and niece one. That I'm presenting this scenario as providing the better potential for a stronger dynamic, thematically, has EVERYTHING to do with the general conversation/speculation around Rey being a child of either Han/Leia or Luke. If that wasn't the case we wouldn't be having the conversation. It would be moot. I also think it's entirely plausible for Rey to be written so she's not the daughter of either Han/Leia or Luke. But if she is to be the daughter of the OT 3, I think it makes more sense that she is Luke's.

That's a tad misleading. We're discussing a "father and son story" that spans the existing 6 films. That's 6 films. A pattern. And yes, that pattern could be broken with TFA. But I'm not arguing whether the pattern will be broken, I'm making a case for why it's logical to anticipate the pattern to be continued as part of the ongoing narrative.

This isn't about disputing "what makes a meaningful family connection" in the real world. This is about relationship dynamics in a SW movie. Not real life. Not necessarily the same thing. We don't all fall in love with princesses and pirates, have father issues or have a zen type master as a mentor. These are character/relationship archetypes that are common in fiction... and that's one of the reasons why I think a father/daughter dynamic seems more likely.

Because that's my perception of the argument you are making. I don't need to justify why you're not persuading me. It is you that needs to convince me otherwise... in terms of the debate (and it's not like I'm unwilling to listen).

Ok - So why do you think it's such a huge problem? What happens if it turns out Rey's mother is not dead? Is Rey being family tied to the OT 3 more of a cliche than her not being the child of any of them? Would her not having ANY family connection be your preference?

As I have already stated... of course Rey doesn't have to be a Skywalker. As per above, that was never the point in question. Also - I think the first insult was in your first reply, which was quite aggressive in tone. Not that I mind...

Again that's not correct. I didn't state that The Godfather III failed "squarely on the fact that Vincent was NOT Michael Corleone's son". I don't even believe it "failed", squarely or otherwise. I used that facet as an example of where the dynamic didn't work; suggesting that it was primarily because the relationship with the main character didn't work, which in relation to TFA, is what we were discussing. And yes, if Vincent had been Michael's son, I think the story would have become a lot more interesting.

 

We really need some news about Rey

 

Little known fact... Godfather 3 was a best picture nominee.

Andy Garcia was by far the best part of that movie.

 

No way has Rey ever met Luke before TFA. Either not met at all or she was like 5 or something and can hardly remember him. If they know each other well it doesn't make for a good story. It needs to be a big moment when they do meet.

 

Again, I never understood the hatred for that movie. Good film, I just think people don't like it messing with what Godfather was to them. I remember hearing a long time ago that it originally was going to have a different title for that very reason. "The Life and Death of Michael Corleone" I believe was a working title. Back on topic, regarding the disagreement in the conversation above. I believe that both you Darth PJ, and you Leias_Left_Bun, make sound, good arguments. However in this case I am going to have to side woth LLB. So far the father-son story hasn't been repeated, but rather just being the focal point, IMHO, of the saga. I have always looked at SW as a space opera that plays the whole "sins of the father being visited upon the son" perfectly. It, to ME, is the main sub story/analogy/allegory of the saga. However, there are several of these, as GL likes using a lot of this, rhyming, mirroring, and so on. I chose this because of my relationship with my father, then again (no coincidence here) when my sons starting to love SW, which are also the times in my life when I gave it the most interest. As for Rey, I really hope her, or any others, are related to any of the OT big three. I hope there is a real big focus on Luke. In this movie atleast...Again, just my opinion this is...

 

I'm going to put a theory into play because let's face it, we don't have enough to talk about on this thread.

Rey is neither a Solo or a Skywalker but is related to the Solos and Skywalkers. What if she's a decendant of Padme's sister, Sola?

 

I actually saw on the Cantina a speculation that "Rey" is short for Naberrie as homage to Luke/Leia's mother's family. But the person believed Naberrie is pronounced [Nabar-Rey] but I think it's actually [Naber-Ree]? Remember when people thought Fawn rhymed with Han? Yeah, that didn't make sense either.

Anyway, a long shot but someone on the Cantina also figured out the inspiration for Poe Dameron. It was no secret that Dameron was the name of JJ's assistant but it turns out Poe was also the last name of one of JJ's colleagues on Star Trek.

 

That would make her Luke and Leia's cousin (or second cousin once removed or something like that).

Interesting, but, um, no. I still say Leia and Han's daughter but held as a surprise for a while.....at least until the fall.

It'll be one of Abrams' bad attempts to withhold the truth like he tried with Khan. BUT I think they'll try to keep her identity a secret until the movie but only as a fake out. It will be leaked and everyone will think they have the movie's big twist all figured out and then BOOM we see another out of left field (like Dom being Luke's son, Max being Ani's or Obi-Wan's long lost brother or BB-88 being R2's displaced lover or something we never saw coming).

 

When I go see TFA in the theaters, I'm actually going to buy popcorn. Not for the movie, but for afterwards when everyone finds out Rey isn't related to Luke or Leia.