ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

Are you saying that you demand a committee be sent to verify the truth? By the Senate?

Haha, jokes aside, it's somewhere a few pages back. There was an article link and someone else put a YouTube link to an interview with Hamil. I mean you can even just google about George Lucas and Episode 7. I believe there was even something about Darth Talon (no joke) who was the dark side villain's tool in seducing Ben Solo to the dark side. Hamil has also stated several times at interviews about this not being Lucas' intended sequel plan.

 

Did you see the reddit link I added to my post as an example of the things people say on this topic and how they all contradict each other?

 

I don't know, I only saw a youtube video about five to ten pages back on this thread. I also saw someone and linked "The sequels George Lucas wrote" or something like that. It linked to a few newspaper articles with concept art about a golden Temple (the first Jedi Temple) where the female lead finds Luke in exile etc. And the younger characters being Skywalkers. Exposition etc. And I saw Mark Hamil in several interviews talk about it not being his Luke and this not being Lucas' story.

 

I saw the MH interview video. My problem is that he doesn't really say what all was thrown out or why he thought it should be kept.

I've found some articles.

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/ (This one has nice concept art from the Art of the Last Jedi book and reveals that Rey would have initially discovered Luke in Ep. 7. Luke had gone to a dark place and would reluctantly train this new student.)

http://www.slashfilm.com/jj-abrams-interview-star-wars-the-force-awakens/ (In this one JJA doesn't answer the question about how different what they came up with for TFA was from GL's ideas. It does say that Disney had decided they didn't want to go the way of the GL treatment, but to start from scratch)

http://collider.com/george-lucas-star-wars-sequels-the-last-jedi/ (This article simply points out that the Ep. 8 Rey/Luke thing was kind of the bones of GL's Ep. 7 idea.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...ar-wars-vanity-fair-the-force-awakens/392669/ (This article reveals GL's ideas originally featured much younger characters - kids/teens.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sequel_trilogy#George_Lucas's_early_drafts (Seems in line with the above articles, though doesn't provide new information about who the characters initially were.)

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/...orge-lucas-influenced-star-wars-the-last-jedi (According to this article it was GL's idea that the Jedi Killer would be revealed as a Solo and it has more on the Luke/Rey story which is similar to what appeared in TLJ.)

http://www.slashfilm.com/kathleen-kennedy-interview/ (In this article, KK said they didn't completely ignore GL's ideas. They changed the order of some things. And the story evolved in the development process.)

What I can't seem to find is anything that is saying that the ST was originally about Vader's grandchildren (plural)... (even from GL)

 

As noted she's consistently drawn to the Dark side of the Force but it doesn't actually effect her. What are any consequences of real note does she suffer that are not just at best temporary setbacks? Even when something might have an effect on her it's presented as nothing and we have to dig deep to say that maybe that might mean something but the story doesn't support that inference. The whole sequence from Luke is nicely done for what it is but it could be so much more. What it is about is sacrificing Luke to get Rey over.

As pointed out before replace Luke with Yoda and Rey with Luke and think of how awful that would be in comparison to TESB.

The idea that Rey gets weak just doesn't work. She only gets stronger and stronger and is really already a Jedi by the end of the movie which is for her basically 3 days since her first appearance in TFA.

For whatever reason they are sabotaging Rey's (now non-story) story to have any meaning for the character. She is simply a contrivance. An artificial being used for emotional, thematic use and plot convenience but actually giving her a character and story was expelled in TLJ. It was weak enough in TFA but at least there was something. Now it's all for naught.

As I've said before I enjoy TLJ on an entertainment level and get the themes of subversion, satire and parody but it's a pretty poor EPISODE VIII to follow on from TFA and certainly doesn't actually connect with the original six on the character and story level though it uses a ton of elements and themes that are from them.

 

Another article, which sums up some things GL said while revealing nothing more than it was about teenagers:
https://www.inverse.com/article/6675-what-was-george-lucas-nixed-star-wars-episode-vii-idea

 

It would be more like Luke losing it on Obi-Wan for not telling him the truth had he still been alive (which would have made sense) or if Luke’s mission was to bring Yoda back to the fight to stop the Emperor he fought previously while he focused on Vader (which also could have worked if the CG was possible back then).

There’s no parody theme. There is a meta quality but it’s simply a soft reboot of the key OT elements reoccurring again in what’s essentially WWII to the OT’s WWI. It’s for new audiences first and some hard core fans like me who don’t mind revisiting the old beats in new ways.

The themes are far more than that:
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/moral-lessons-debates-of-tlj.50048263/

And

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...t-weakness-of-the-mind-receiving-it.50048337/

 

This is the point though. It could actually for that scene make some sense for Luke because Vader is his father and Obi-Wan (who he also knows) was someone he has a relationship with. Luke is a stranger to Rey. Kylo Ren is nothing but a monster and killer to her (except for some reason she softens on him which to me is still kind of a dodge in the story) but she side-steps that.

Except as I said that would be awful for Yoda and Luke as characters in the TLJ version because Yoda has quit and Luke would be a stranger who doesn't need training anyway.

I see plenty of parody or satire in the subversion for subversion's sake for theme not characters. They and the story are bent to serve the plot RJ wants regardless of it actually flowing.

It's also supposed to be VIII and that should have been taken into consideration. VII at least made some modicum of sense when you look at the movie and the backstory that existed at that point (not that much was actually in the movie!) I suspect that JJ's own backstory (that was never official) probably made sense of the characters, especially Luke.

Still a lot of blame has to go to him for making Rey such a nothing character in the first place outside of being gorgeous and likeable but as we know he prizes mystery over story and emotional wind-ups tied to plot not character.

JJ was wrapped in mystery and RJ in thematic subversion. Each share the emotion tied to plot with the character and story in service on a scene to scene basis. They seem to be so wrapped in these things that they go scene by scene and are drawn to moments even though the connectors between them don't really flow together or lead to one another all that well on examination.

As this is the Rey thread then once again let's look at that. Anakin and Luke after two movies then Rey.

She is a far distant third. Really she is fourth because it's Ren that is the antagonist and central character while Rey is a protagonist who is there for Ren as Luke and Snoke and Leia and Han are. She is a Padme with no flaws who needs no training (as Padme had both) with instant Jedi powers and more focus over the movies but ultimately like Padme her story is her relationship to the central male figure.

I don't know about you but I think that is bad for the character and the story of the ST. I am hoping that there is actually a plan here and that it will have a pay-off and something will save this character from future ignominy when far better female roles are created in Star Wars. They already have been before (Leia and Padme) and since (Jyn) . This is just the movies of course. In the wider Star Wars there are so many better female roles that Rey is already diminished.

 

Interesting quote from the Solo interview that suggests Han's behaviour towards Rey is inspired by his own hard upbringing rather than - "this girl is my daughter but I will not say anything".

 

I don't know. Han said to "get ready" before some crazy Falcon maneuver in Solo trailer. Rey did the same thing in TFA. They're related. Han just didn't know.

 

If they're related and it all works, fair play to TPTB.

 

Sorry I was kidding, though I do think there's a slight possibility.

 

Breznican made that connection to Rey after quoting Ron Howard paraphrasing Harrison Ford. That's not a quote. He does that a lot.

But I do expect Han and Rey parallels and Finn and Ben in the Solo movie.

 

Honestly i dont think TFA was any better for Rey as a character.

The whole movie she kept "whinning" about her family.

Then suddenly she discovered she had the force and used it immediately and won over Kylo(darth vader's grandson and a trained jedi and dark sider) without any training or experience.

That made people "label" her either a skywalker or a mary sue.

Now that TLJ said she is not a skywalker, she is a mary sue for people.

And they keep ruining her character by giving her all these new powers and titles(jedi, hero) without ANY struggle or conflict.

Her victories dont feel earned at all.

Thats why people are sympathising with Kylo bcoz he struggles, loses and gets back up again.

Rey now is a flat character who will keep winning no matter the odds and keep gaining more awesome titles.

She is not relatable at all now.

The worse thing is she will make everything right which skywalkers wronged, in the skywalker saga, and i am sure it will make people hate her.

People already are hating on her bcoz Luke is dead and he failed in creating a jedi order but Rey will do it successfully without any training or help.

Just like she is doing everything without any training or help from anyone.

I dont think it will be any different in 9.

 

Yup pretty much this.

It was Lucas's idea.

Originally the idea was that Jedi killer (kylo) will fall during 7 and force bond between him and kira(rey) will be established.
Jedi Killer still kills Han.

Kira and Skylar(finn) who was then a Solo will go on the adventure. Kira will meet Luke.

Jedi killer the big bad was to be revealed a Solo in 8.

But Arndt changed that and made Jedi Killer THE Solo , bigger stakes that way.

Skylar became Finn the stromtooper. Kira became Rey both unrelated to Skywalkers.

But JJ revealed Ben Solo in 7.

It was Arndt 's idea for Luke to appear at the end of TFA. JJ kept it.

Jedi killer was always a Solo, he just became THE Solo.

Kira and Jedi killer were never related.

The idea that Jedi Killer(Solo "son") killed Luke's students and betrayed him and killed Han came from Lucas himself.
And Luke being sad and in exile, Rey finding him too came from Lucas.

Kylo's code names were "Jedi Killer" and "the Son" initially.

Lucas had a plan for Skywalkers and KK is following it.
Thats why she is THE head of LF and fires any director who's vision doesnt match with hers.

No matter what they say Skywalker/Solos are Lucas's creation and they ARE following Lucas's plan for them.

Oh and Solo movie idea was Lucas's too.

So yes, they DO have a plan.

 

Sorry.
I was just making a point why people call her that.

 

Yes we know now that they did adapt various elements of Lucas' outlines without actually following his story. Rey in particular is a character that I would suspect is incredibly different in personality from anything Lucas would do. It's hard to imagine him having a protagonist as nothing as Rey with no real failures, struggles or training who uses the dark side with no consequence.

 

"The original Saga was about the father, the children, and the grandchildren. That’s not a secret to anybody, it’s even in the novels and everything. The children were in their 20s and everything, so it wasn’t The Phantom Menace again."

 

Can I just say you are a legend!

The former Star Wars films (the SAGA), was a new franchise and so elements could be taken on their own. And indeed we had exposition and explanations about the setting (the galactic status quo), the characters and the plot arc (the Empire, the Force, the Jedi, the Rebellion etc). The role of the Skywalkers made clear. That is possible when you have a new story. Indeed the prequels too tie in to the saga (the fall of the Republic, transition to Empire, the fall of the Jedi, the revenge of the Sith and the Skywalker role in this).


However TFA and TLJ, as part of the same franchise and also the main saga (not anthology films) have to tie in. They are part of the Star Wars saga which is a double edged sword. It means you get a worldwide brand recognition and are part of a special family of films (not only the anthology, but a crucial chapter/previous episode slot in an epic space opera revolving around the Skywalkers), instant publicity and part of the story. Powerful, but with great responsibility. Part of Lucas’ visionary masterpiece and ONE STORY.


You are required by virtue of the fact that these are SEQUELS following on from the OT (and PT), to align with previous films, with believable logical progression, an overarching story, settings, galactic exposition and visual styles etc. The writers of these films seem to be writing this as they go along, with no plan. No story arc. No one 9 film saga. Making a cake without knowing what cake you want to make. When the cake is part of a 3 course meal.

I agree, TFA and TLJ had to continue and Rey has to be more than a plot device with no faults etc who achieves everything in a day or two.

She can speak more languages than C3PO, fix faster than R2D2, beat Luke (the Last of the Jedi), beat his apprentice and random baddie Snoke (another issue with no backstory or logical explanation), fly better than Han (12 parsecs, she'd do the Kessel Run in 1), etc etc.

We need a STORY and one saga, not illogical progression, no pay offs, and incoherent story telling. Visuals are great, but make an epic Star Wars saga, not 3 disjointed films.

Also agreed on Leia, Padme and Jyn being better characters in better stories!

 

Yet once again, no one ever says the 'female Jedi lead' was one of the grandchildren. As I've said before in various stages of George's treatment & earlier scripts of TFA there were Sam, Skylar, & John Doe, who could've all been Skywalker grandchildren. As the Jedi Killer wasn't originally related.

 

Agreed. It was awkward. The lightsaber went to her, not its master??

 

Not sure what you're saying here. Rey pulled the lightsaber to her with the force. Luke did not. What does Luke being the 'lightsaber's master' have to do with anything at all?