ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

I really don't know that it is they are saying about the Force in the ST because I very much doubt there is any true plan in place or understanding of the Force as set out by Lucas in I-VI plus TCW.

I didn't follow the EU so I don't know that they did there but I don't know that they tried to do a redefinition of this kind (if that is what is going on). It could simply be that we are interpreting it that way which isn't intentional or their part due to their not really having a clear definition.

We've talked before about the more X-Men aspects of Rey and stable boy that can be inferred (which might mean nothing as Rey is a one-off and stable-boy is just a coda scene for effect that will never be touched upon in the movies again).

I don't know what they are really saying. I don't know if they know either. More than likely it'll be up to JJ to hopefully say something but I fear it's going to be another mystery box and make it the way you want it to be until we tell you otherwise (and oh BTW whatever you think is wrong anyway.)

Exactly and this rescues Luke, makes Rey relevant to him, gives her character agency and allows Luke to teach her and Rey finally gets training.

Even if they went with the arrogant Luke who became a coward and quitter angle then it could still be acceptable in the framework of the character if Snoke is just SO unbelievably powerful. So far beyond Sidious that Luke can't figure out what to do and despairs. Then he runs away to Ahch-To in that desperation to find something (and can't), that gets him into the state of mind that his failure is all Jedi failure. Then Rey shows up and the Force renews his faith in himself and the Jedi.

It's really not hard to take the same basic framework of TLJ and shift it so that Luke regains his hero status in a meaningful way as a character and not just in a flawed thematic way (which makes little sense in the first place) and Rey actually learns and trains so that her raw power is just that from TFA.

 

The werent interested in Luke and Rey dynamic.

They were interested in Luke and Kylo dynamic.

Thats why Rey went to AchTo, so they could reveal what happened b/w Luke and Kylo.

AchTo storyline did nothing for Rey.
She didnt get trained, she didnt build any relationship with Luke for the future FG visits either.

She build a relationship with Kylo though and thats what they wanted.

 

I dont think she is a jedi yet.

And Luke wasnt wrong either.
Force is NOT a power you have.
He explained it later to her.

By the way Luke said i will not be the last jedi.
He didnt say Rey is.

So Rey being a jedi is not a sure thing.

 

I'd like to know Daisy Ridley's real opinion of TLJ. She might be a fan of it, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was underwhelmed with Rey's story in it. I thought TFA was a great break out for her, but TLJ didn't do her any favours IMHO.

 

Well lets be honest here, even if she does indeed like it, naysayers will just find a way interpret it as "look, see she hates it too! I'm right!". Just like they do with Mark Hamill no matter how many countless times he calls them out for being idiots that take his words out of context.

 

Well, I agree with you that the relationship between Luke and Rey was very strange or at least did not have an appropriate closure. I would have liked them both to share a final scene where Luke had a more friendly behavior with her. although this could be solved in the next movie.

 

Except what is courage? Courage is doing what is right in spite of danger. Luke is doing what is right despite the dangers of it, and in many ways that is courageous. Yes, he is informed too much by self-doubt and self-hatred, and is wrong in the end, but ultimately he was courageous to risk his own life and the Jedi for something better.

He knows that the light will rise again from another source (what he believes will be a better source) with him removed and that all the weight of the Jedi and their failures will be swept away. He doesn't understand that failure is what makes the Jedi better - it lifts them up, rather than weighting them down. That's his lesson. He will continue to train Rey in the future as a Ghost and pass on his knowledge, just as he has passed on to her the knowledge of his failures.

There is no reorientation of Force. The Force has, at least since TCW (and I would argue since the PT), been the light side and the dark side. Each individual has a choice - balance between the light and dark, or the darkness. The Force is not the Force and dark side of the Force (even under Lucas).

 

I agree. Which is why I can never see it in what he did. Waiting for someone else to fight your battles is never courageous to me. Especially not with the fallacy logic of "oh, I`m the problem". I know RJ probably wants it to be seen as positive and active but it is the opposite to me.

There is not much I can relate to with Rey but her disgusted reaction to all that, this is what I related to because I felt the same throughout the movie. Granted, she seemed somewhat forgiving after Crait which is where I parted ways with her again. It would probably take me 5 movies of non-stop heroics to forgive something like that.

 

I couldn't really pinpoint where Rey was going in this film. I like Rey and Daisy Ridley, but I don't think they went deep enough with Rey that made her interesting enough to want to root for her. She needs to be faced with more challenges in nine for me to see her as a true hero. I saw her as, and rightly so, wanting a role model, wanting to find answers to her heritage and wanting to belong. She also came off as a little desperate, naive and gullible, especially when it comes to Kylo, which bothers me. In the end, she came around. Even moving the rocks to save the others was anticlimactic. Ok. She moved rocks. Hopefully, some depth will come in. I looked forward to Rey from TFA into TLJ. Now, that desire has kind of petered out.

 

And ignoring that his own sister is CALLING for help made the situation worst. She could be dead while he was like "oh, look! it's a fish!"

 

I took Luke's problem as more ashamed. Ashamed at what he did -- thinking of killing Ben and failing and he ghosted. I known someone in real life who has crewed up and just clammed up and shut down -- disengage. If they could go to their own island to die, I'd imagine they would since they acted like that metaphorically.

It's sad that it affected his relationship with Leia.

As for Rey -- I liked her story but thought she was smarter about the force than just "it makes things float."

 

The script really needed one more pass to add things like - Rey, earlier in the movie, trying to move some rocks but not being able to; having Rey mentioning and thinking about Finn more, then using his presence at the end to give her the motive to save the Resistance (as the movie stands now, it always feels hollow when she talks about the Resistance cause she's never been part of it. She wouldn't really care about them. She would care about saving Finn.). Just a few simple additions would have helped her character immensely.

Incidentally...did we ever have a final answer in whether Rey really does say '****' (the 's' word) in this movie? In the Pretorian guards fight scene, just before she does the dropping and catching the saber move to kill that guard?

 

Rey was going in TLJ where she was going in TFA and that is NOWHERE.

She is NOT an interesting or deep character at all.

Her popularity after TFA was bcoz of WHO she was, not how well written character she was.

Look at Jyn Erso, Rey in comparison is nothing.

The only thing Rey had going for her was her parentage and now that its out of the way; and people know she is a nobody, people are losing interest in her.

She wasnt a great character to begin with and now she really has nothing to offer other than, hey look a female jedi hero.

 

These kind of statements belong in the Sanctuary thread, not here. Tone it down, please.

 

Star war, Amazing. Every word of what you just said.. was wrong

 

This isn't helpful. Let's drop this here, and get back to something resembling civil discourse, please.

 

Heck even after learning that Han was dead, he still didn't really want to train her. You'd think that that might do something to bond them together, but it really didn't.

 

He doesn’t see her as anything more than a messenger initially when he learns of Han. Rey to him may as well have been a random droid initially. And it’s not like she’s holding out the saber and asking to be trained then. She’s asking him to get on the ship and join the war against Ben Solo.

It takes him some time to work through a little more what’s even happening and he’s convinced himself fo so long that what he’s doing is best it takes more time for him to take steps toward the realization that it really isn’t. He slowly is inching more and more toward a better relationship and more like his old self until he sees Ben Solo trying to corrupt another student and then it’s like he’s back as square one again. However, this time thanks to Rey he’s reconnected with the Force or things could have gone even worse.

He is mourning Han on the Falcon in his own way. Remember, this is a veteran of war and an old man now. Loss is no stranger to people the older they get. In any case he softens more and sees R2 there and hears the holo message and decides he’ll give her the 3 most important things someone with her power should know.

1) What the Force is and how it works and doesn’t. Including how the Dark Side works and offers easier solutions to problems. And how this power isn’t owned only by Jedi.

2) Why the Jedi should be eliminated from the equation and all of the big past Jedi mistakes.

3) That Jedi do things that Yoda told him to do (stay behind and not help) and that Rey is better off carving her own path without learning the Jedi ways which lead to failures. (Deleted scene)

Between that, seeing her inspires him to reconnect to the Force himself which sets up everything else so Rey did still help him in a way and he did help her to lift the stones at the end. They helped each other more than they realized initially. That’s the point.

I suspect Yoda told him she had the texts and he had his own moment of realization about how promising she is and I’m sure when she’s had a moment to breathe she’ll appreciate what he did too. Their relationship started rocky but should be better via Force ghost in IX.

 

That's the problem. Unlike the PT/OT one saga concept that the Force is with us, and we must learn to let it flow through us and master it, we are given insta-rey.

Qui Don's speech to Anakin, Yoda's speech to Luke and Anakin, Obi Wan's speeches to Anakin and Luke, Palpatine's speeches to Anakin, this all seems belittled and redundant with Insta-Rey.

 

Especially when she doesn't have to actually struggle for any of it, or suffer any real defeats either. Ironically, the person who actually works hard for it, and feels like he puts in the effort and struggle, is the VILLAIN!!

 

I’m watching the first 3 episodes of Rebels and Ezra picks up the Force as fast as Rey without training.

Force jumps in first episode. Force push by second episode. Force levitate and force button push by episode 3. All without any training yet and all just by hoping and imagining.

We have yet to see Rey block or deflect blasts with her saber or do anything blind yet either.

 

You're using a terrible and pointless character's actions to excuse away another terrible and pointless character's actions. Well done.

 

You don’t like Ezra either?

 

I despise his inclusion. He is entirely unnecessary and grating as hell.

 

I’m still early into then story but so far I think it’s just something else you and I see differently. I also suspect that if I was younger I’d like him even more. Perhaps you might have too if you were more the age demo that show is largely focused on?