main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I mean, yes I'm entitled to my opinion, and I also disagree with you about what's presented in the story. I explained why. Her odd, intimate pro-Kylo behavior started before the vision that caused her to attack Luke.

    She never says this. She does, however, reassure Kylo that he isn't alone before she has a vision of him turning good, after he acted cold and without remorse directly to her about murdering Han.

    It's clear well before the end of the film that the loneliness and isolation they feel couldn't be more different. In fact, Rey resolved some of her loneliness issues in the last movie. She has found belonging, while Kylo murdered his as she watched.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    wobbits, Shadao and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  2. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Oh God, you think so? That`s a horrible thought. I mean, other than shippers, for whom is that a big loss?
     
  3. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Considering that Luke is bizarrely made out as a quasi-antagonist and she's separated from the Resistance this whole time, it's more on Leia, Holdo and Poe more than her.
     
    wobbits, Shadao and -LordSkywalker- like this.
  4. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Rey's arc ends once she vanishes from Snoke's throne room. Not sure if there is a consequence for her choice to save Ben. Luke, astrally, returned to "save" the remnants of the Resistance so, in a manner of speaking, she achieved her objective.
     
    -LordSkywalker- and AhsokaSolo like this.
  5. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    In the age of social media, yup :p

    https://i.redd.it/7zwj965fe3501.jpg
     
  6. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    DP
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  7. Deerborne

    Deerborne Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Does everything have to be verbalized or spelled out for it to be apparent? You can't draw from context clues? Rey thinks she's nothing. It's clear to the audience from TFA that she is the hero the Resistance needs, but she can't see that in herself because she thinks a nobody like her can't be the hero. She thinks she has no place in this story. So she seeks out Luke, then Ben--Skywalkers, "important" people. It isn't until Kylo cruelly uses that against her that she realizes how backwards that thinking is and decides to become, in RJ's words, the hero of her own story.

    And, again, she was lonely in that moment. You know, where she didn't have any of the people who had made her feel less lonely. At the end of the movie, she's back with them, with the people who actually care about her, and she isn't lonely anymore.

    That's fair. I'll concede that it's more everyone's fault than it is just Rey's, but she certainly contributes to it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  8. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    I think when you say something like "it's not what was presented in the story," I'm expecting you to point to something tangible in the story, not an interpretation of the story that is at the very least ambiguous. I absolutely can draw from context clues, such as Rey lying to Luke about her secret skype sessions with Kylo from the very beginning. Having that ability, however, doesn't mean I will come to the same conclusions as you, and in this case, I didn't.

    I don't know that Rey thinks she's nothing. I've never heard her say that, and frankly I don't get that impression from her behavior. I know that Kylo thinks she is nothing, except to him, and when he degraded her she whimpered and didn't defend herself. Still, that she believed she could succeed with Kylo where his own loving father, galactic hero Han Solo, failed, displays a certain amount of confidence, not to mention all the other situations she has confidently tackled in these two movies.

    Do you mean, in the moment by the campfire she was lonely? She did have "any of the people who made her feel less lonely" - she had Chewie, who came back for her.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    wobbits, Shadao, 11-4D and 2 others like this.
  9. Deerborne

    Deerborne Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    I don't think this argument is going to go anywhere because neither of us is going to change the other's mind.

    And yeah, it's an interpretation, but I think it's more credible than "she was just hot for him and that was the only reason."

    Perhaps she lied to Luke about the Force connections because she didn't want to tell the man who was already extremely wary of her that she was having weird skype sessions with his evil nephew?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Lost_Hope likes this.
  10. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    Honestly, it's just bad writing. Or writing that had to be truncated to fit the parallel narrative of Leia, Poe, Finn and Rose. I can see both points of view and get the same result: flawed storytelling.
     
    wobbits, La Calavera, Shadao and 2 others like this.
  11. Deerborne

    Deerborne Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Yeah, I'll never deny that it was poorly written and handled. I'm disappointed in RJ because he has strong storytelling capabilities, he could have done better. I'm just saying, there are explanations for things that extend beyond some passing romantic subtext, they're just not well explained because the movie was so badly edited, written, and paced.
     
  12. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    My interpretation is based on Rey’s behavior in the movie. It’s not based on how best I could hypothetically rationalize her behavior.

    Perhaps she lied to Luke for many reasons. We don’t know because she was denied introspective dialogue. What I do know is Rey knew Kylo’s goal was to find and murder Luke, and she lied anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    wobbits, La Calavera, 11-4D and 2 others like this.
  13. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 13, 2016
    It's as if RJ had meticulously pinpointed exactly where he wanted his characters to be throughout TLJ and completely flubbed on coherently connecting the points. For the story to work, Rey had to doubt Luke and trust Kylo, which TFA (and the OT) had explicitly established the opposite.

    RJ subverted that expectation and created character muddle, and in places, character assassination, but that's for another thread.
    Hmmmm. This is damning.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  14. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
    Rey in the final of TFA: I'm sad because maybe my parents will never come back to me, my father figure was murdered, I was tortured & kidnapped and my best friend is in a coma! Now I have powers that I don't understand! I left my plant in Jakku!

    Rey in the final of TLJ: I'm sad because of... Ben™... Wait, what?
    [​IMG]
     
  15. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    And by giving up on Luke and being impatient and keeping secrets of the mind bridge from him she helps contribute to the lack of trust both have for each other that climaxes with her thinking he helped turn Ben Solo. She then leaves the island, ending the possibility of a Luke change of heart which later comes, and without a ship and wanting to help, Luke Skywalker becomes desperate to help the only way he feels he can through his mastery of the Force. This ultimately leads him to possibly a premature death.

    That’s another concequence of her choice. Her goal was to bring Luke Skywalker back and while she did help that happen from a “certain point of view” it possibly could have been even better had she been more up front about the mind bridge and asked for help and remained patient in his readjusting to life around other humans after years of isolation and more patient in helping him to work through his issues. Perhaps even telling him what was happening would have made Luke more invested in helping her and unlocked his natural ability to help when he sees someone in front of him in need? We will never know. She left him and now Luke Skywalker is one with the Force and has left the physical world and Ben Solo, a guy she sympathizes with and believed could be turned, is Emperor and knows all of her weak spots if he chooses to use them against her. Rey also was stabbed in the arm in her fight with the guard and was tortured by Snoke so the whole “without a scratch” comment is unfair. I doubt any of us would want to be stabbed in the shoulder or tortured by Snoke.

    Rian wasn’t lying that the relationship between Luke and Rey ends up having huge concequences in the story. It just didn’t go the way many thought.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Deerborne likes this.
  17. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    DP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  18. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Rey spent 15 years alone on Jakku, yet she's so desperately lonely after two days on an island that she confides with the psycho who's murdering her friends.
     
    wobbits and AhsokaSolo like this.
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I definitely would not say that Rey had no consequences for her behavior. I just would have liked to feel something when she received her consequences other than “Maybe don’t be so friggin’ stupid next time?”
     
  20. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    And by giving up on Luke and being impatient and keeping secrets of the mind bridge from him she helps contribute to the lack of trust both have for each other that climaxes with her thinking he helped turn Ben Solo. She then leaves the island, ending the possibility of a Luke change of heart which later comes, and without a ship and wanting to help Luke Skywalker becomes desperate to help the only way he feels he can through his mastery of the Force. This ultimately leads him to possibly a premature death.

    That’s another concequence of her choice. Her goal was to bring Luke Skywalker back and while she did help that happen from a “certain point of view” it possibly could have been even better had she been more up front about the mind bridge and asked for help and remained patient in his recovery. Perhaps even telling him what was happening would have made Luke more invested in helping her and unlocked his natural ability to help when he sees someone in front of him in need? We will never know. She left him and now Luke Skywalker is one with the Force and has left the physical world and Ben Solo, a guy she sympathizes with and believed could be turned, is Emperor and knows all of her weak spots if he chooses to use them against her. Rey also was stabbed in the arm in her fight with the guard and was tortured by Snoke so the whole “without a scratch” comment is a

    Rian wasn’t lying that the relationship between Luke and Rey ends up having huge concequences in the story. It just didn’t go the way many thought.
    Oversimplification. 15 years of loneliness is the key there. The days on Ahch-To aren’t what make her lonely. It’s the Dark side cave vision and lack of closure and lack of answers regarding her place in the galaxy with these powers that make her feel more like someone who is unlike few others and who doesn’t understand why.

    One aspect that makes the Force journey of the ST different is that Rey doesn’t have the luxury of being discovered and given answers about her abilities and purpose from others the way Luke and Anakin did. Anakin was told he was the chosen one and given guidance and knowledge. Luke was told his father was a Jedi Knight from a Jedi Knight who explained the what the Force was quickly. Heck, even Ezra in Rebels meets a helpful Jedi who wants to help him reach his potential. Ben Solo has been the most active in recruiting Rey and telling her he can show her the ways of the Force and that goes way back to TFA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    Deerborne likes this.
  21. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Expert At Modding Casual star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I don't think she actually did. I can't remember Rey having any negative effect on the Resistance plot. Their destruction was due to DJ overhearing their plans, and ratting them out to the FO. That would've happened with or without Rey. I think she really was consequence free in this film. Everyone else suffered, but not her.
     
  22. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    The 15 years of loneliness was the arc TFA addressed. She found belonging with the people that came back for her, including Chewie who’s right there on the island with her, who previously, per Han, wanted her to live with him. I could see that moment being about loneliness after the dark side cave, but I suspect you’re adding lack of answers regarding her place because of her powers because that’s the only way to make Kylo make sense as a person to turn to over Chewie. Except, the dark side cave wasn’t about her powers. It was about her desire for her parents, and being left with just herself. In that context, it would make a ton of sense for her to bond with Chewie, who still, like her, is mourning Han, and pointedly, didn’t murder Han.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    wobbits, Qui-Riv-Brid and 11-4D like this.
  23. Deerborne

    Deerborne Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 15, 2015
    Fair. But I wouldn't say she didn't suffer. At the end of the movie she's still dealing with a. the fact that she failed to turn Kylo and failed to bring Luke back and now he's dead and b. the Resistance is nearly wiped out and the FO has the upper hand. I'd say her heartbroken "how do we build a Rebellion from this?" is evidence enough.
     
  24. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Could this possibly be a reason why the Republic, Resistance/Rebels and First Order are portrayed as such nothings of consequence?

    I'd like to think that this is the reason on some level but no, I don't buy it. JJ, RJ and the rest simply don't care about that story and it shows in everything they do. I even get the sense that maybe KK tells them "don't worry about that kind of stuff. We'll make that material for fans in other media. No one else (including us) really cares about it."

    This as I said here or there is the underlying basics of the difference between the ST and Lucas (but not near as much with Rogue One overseen by John Knoll who worked with Lucas on the SE's and PT) he thinks about the entire product while for the ST they are so keyed in on only certain aspects and so everything else doesn't matter and for we who watch these movies more than once or twice we feel it.

    I think he thought of all the themes, emotion and "moments" he wanted then proceeded to write a script that did that regardless of anything actually in Lucas' saga, TFA and basic common sense character progression.

    She inherently listens to Ren over Luke!

    Very kind and charitable of you to frame it that way but since it was completely out of her power in regards to Ren and Luke (and is played that way) then her failure is her arrogance towards both (which is NOT played that way) I wish it was. Then she have an actual real tangible fault to learn from. She has no connection to the Resistance being all but wiped out and in fact saves them.

    There are plenty of things in the movie that could have been placed on Rey to make her have faults and struggles which is why it's frustrating as it's all there but they don't do anything with it.

    On the less important power side it's even worse as he wins every fight she has one way or another with no reason that she should be able to do so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
    wobbits and AhsokaSolo like this.
  25. 11-4D

    11-4D Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Where's the struggle in dealing with failing to turn Ben? She had no personal investment in his turn. Same with Luke, they didn't like each other and she assaulted him. She still did the good guys a massive, massive favor by being used as a distraction for Kylo killing Snoke.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.