ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

I don't even know if Shuri is a better written character. She fits ideas of a "strong female character" better but there's no inner journey for her character because she is support for her brother. The relationship between her and her brother is good, and her personality is clear though. Rey's personality isn't so clear (we learn more about her in TLJ that we didn't know from TFA). Shuri is only in one movie though (not to say she will not be back as I am sure she will), so her character isn't being developed over the course of three movies.

 

I agree that Shuri isn’t the best comparison to Rey. She’s a better comparison with Rose, who I like, but Shuri is clearly imo miles better and more interesting (good grief, especially when taking the novel into account).

The better direct comparison for Rey is Wonder Woman. Rey is supposed to be the protagonist here. However, given that TLJ destroys that, maybe the better comparison with Rey is Ahsoka. She was part of an ensemble in TCW. She was a lead, but it wasn’t just her story. She wasn’t in all episodes, and she played support in many that she was in. TLJ is like one of Ahsoka’s supporting episodes for Rey. Wonder Woman is a better written character when it’s WW vs. TFA, but that could be excused because TFA was the first of a trilogy. TLJ establishes that WW is the wrong comparison, so between Ahsoka and Rey, so far I’d say Ahsoka (in TCW) is much better written, which can also be excused because there is clearly more time in a series to flesh out a character. Maybe Leia is a good comparison. She isn’t the lead in the OT. Also better written.

 

If screen time made a protagonist, I’d agree. We both know I don’t, so let’s not pretend to be confused. TLJ wasn’t about Rey.

 

To say TLJ wasn't about Rey is hyperbole, IMO.

 

No it’s observation. You may disagree, but I’m not being hyperbolic. That is a literal description of my opinion based on my observations that I could discuss in detail if people wanted, instead of just making snarky remarks.

If people think Rey is the protagonist, please explain to me how Rey’s “journey” in TLJ is like an actual protagonist’s, like WW, or Ripley. I think subjecting Rey to comparisons where she is obviously the loser isn’t the best way to defend her protagonist position, but that’s not my burden to meet.

 

Leia is the one of the best written characters in Saga, if not the best, IMO. I woudn't be surprised if mostly it was Leigh Brackett's input in ESB.

 

Yeah, she really doesn't have much of a hero's journey. She learns a couole things from Luke, but doesn't convince him to come back and nothing she learns is relevant to anything she does to help the Resistance, she gets tricked by the villan, she learns her parents sold her, or no she doesnt learn it she admits it but that doesn't really have anything to do with the situation at hand either. Just the villan manipulating her insecuritiesm

 

DR summed it up perfectly - Rey is a cog in the machine. A cog in a machine is not the machine itself.

The major players of this movie, Kylo and Luke, do virtually nothing because of her. They interact with her, use her for a sounding board, manipulate her, but make their important decisions not because of her, then she disappears so they can face off. Same with Snoke, the fake out villain. He doesn’t care about Rey at all, other than how he can use her to achieve his goal with Kylo. Meanwhile, Rey’s “arc” of admitting what she already knew (redux of TFA, only more half assed) always comes back to Kylo’s melodrama, because he’s the last Skywalker in this Skywalker Saga. This trilogy is about him.

 

Quin-Gon Jinn had more screen time than Anakin in TPM but I don’t think most people would say the movie was about Quin-Gon Jinn or that he was the main protagonist.

It’s a matter of how the characters and their stories are constructed – and how relevant to the narrative they feel. TLJ feels like a movie which story is mostly constructed around Kylo and Luke, and less around Rey.

 

Rey has a unique mix of Hero's and Heroine's Journey in TLJ. There was a clear Journey here even if one finds it weak or not perfect.

And if it's not pure Hero's Journey, it doesn't mean that other journeys don't exist. Considering that Rey is, you know, a woman, and not Luke.

 

Creates a detailed post on Rey’s hero journey with specifics for people who had quoted him.

Asks politely for the thread not to become BP related because he hasn’t seen it yet and doesn’t expect spoilers for that in a Star Wars thread about Rey.

People pretend like neither happened and revert to their old talking points about Rey despite the earlier post that addresses and cites Campbell on why things may be the way they are... and talk about Black Panther in even greater detail in a thread about Rey on a Star Wars forum.

SMH.

 

Quin-Gon Jinn and Padme were main protagonists in TPM for me. I'm sure that a lot of people think the same.

 

You're the first. I've seen more people claiming Obi-Wan was the main protagonist. I think GL at some point tried to say it Padme was the main.
The movie was, however about Anakin (and maybe Padme and politcs), but certainly not about Qui-Gon Jinn. He was in the role of the master, not in a hero's journey.

 

What does her being a woman have to do with anything about her having a hero's journeys or the type of hero' journey? At least this day and age?

 

Because protagonists, main heroes and hero's\heroine's journey are not the same thing. PT has different structure and ST has different structure. Star Wars is not only OT and Luke's journey is not template to other trilogies.

Everything. Because Heroine's journey is different from Hero's. For a reason. Because Hero's Journey was created only with man on the mind.

 

I don't care about Wonder Woman's journey and I don't care about Ellen Ripley's journey. This isn't Wonder Woman and this isn't Alien.

Rey is on her own journey in TLJ, one that she has very much been thrown into thanks to the events of TFA. So it actually makes sense, to me, that her 'motivations' aren't completely fleshed out at this point. She's been on a whirlwind journey in the past day and a half and has just really discovered that she can wield the force in ways that others can't. That's her main motivation in TLJ, along with trying to get Luke Skywalker to save the Resistance (because Leia said so), to try and learn what the hell is going on inside of her. I wouldn't have any particular 'motivations' either if I were her. I'd just be confused.

Her journey in TLJ is one of self discovery. She thinks she's there to get Luke and bring him back to the Resistance. What a great story that would be for our protagonist! She gets Luke to, reluctantly, start to teach her about the force. This helps, of course, but I'd argue it's not why she's there. She's there to discover who she is and, more importantly, what she can become. We've been being fed this since the marketing of TFA first started: "Who are you?" "I'm no one."

Rey has some personal issues to resolve while she's on this journey. First, and most obvious, she has abandonment issues. After being sold off by her parents for drinking money, she's repressed this memory and has become obsessed with her parents coming back for her. Being the parents she's always longed for. We see this want and desire for parental figures carry over to Han and Luke.

We also see her obsession with waiting for her parents to come back carry over to waiting for Luke Skywalker to come back and be the savior of the galaxy. Rey, as a result of her abandonment issues, has a strange reliance on particular people to help save the galaxy - perhaps because she feels like she doesn't belong in this mess. It starts with Luke and then pivots to Ben when Luke disappoints her.

So, we've seen her main character flaws, we've seen the movie; let's go through her journey. She finds out the truth about her parents (or remembers it, whatever you prefer) - they were nobody. They sold her for drinking money and abandoned her. She finds out that her hero, Luke Skywalker, isn't who she always imagined he'd be. She finds out that Ben Solo is not the savior of the galaxy, and that sometimes compassion only goes so far. She's basically forced into teaching herself who she really is. She is no one from nowhere - no more hiding it. She does wield the force greater than most. And she can't rely on others to help write her story. She needs to do that herself. And we see her choose to write her own story at the end of the film as she helps the Resistance out of the base, accepting her past, accepting the fact that she can't rely on others to do it for her.

This doesn't mean that Rey has no conflict for IX, as many might conclude after knowing she's past her issues of abandonment and reliance on heroes and saviors. I haven't even (and won't) gotten into her dynamic with Ben Solo, who complicates her journey and her motivations even more. But it's clear that Rey's destiny is intertwined with our villain's destiny. I don't know what this means. I haven't seen IX. And it doesn't magically make Kylo the protagonist over Rey.

These are just unorganized thoughts spewed out, I think @Ender_and_Bean has highlighted Rey's journey in multiple threads and does so much more eloquently than I do. But it's completely unfair to state as fact that Rey is a protagonist without a journey. If her journey doesn't satisfy you, or you don't quite see it, that's your prerogative.

 

I think it’s a fact that Rey is not the protagonist in TLJ, and no matter how many blogs Ender writes “proving” otherwise, I still have that opinion. Nobody here is proving anything.

 

Nevertheless, the story of TLJ feels structured way more around both Kylo and Luke’s journeys (who both have a sort of a hero’s journey in the movie, even if it’s reverse) than around Rey’s, despite of their screen time. In both PT and OT movies, the focus has always been in Anakin's and Luke's journeys since their introduction.

 

What?

No, I talk about it because several critics approved how BP treated female characters and I agree with them

 

The vehemency in some of these posts is puzzling. Ender doesn't write these long posts to try and prove people wrong. He does it because he sees something in the film that others may not see. He's trying to be helpful and I'm just giving him credit because my post was messy, lol. Sheesh.

You, of course, have a right to your own opinion. It doesn't mean that other folks' opinions aren't valid.

 

@Ender_and_Bean
I really appreciate the depths of your posts, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. AS you said, most people, casuals and critics, myself included, saw Rey igniting the lightsaber in TFA as her moment as accepting the Force inside her and her place as the hero of the story. Was it a mistake to have TLJ occur right after TFA? I ask because it feels like both Rey and Finn went through micro development in 2.5 hours instead of a full movie's worth of development?

So if Rey has only now completed the transition part of the hero's journey, does that mean her nadir will be in the next movie? Because to me, I wasn't sure exactly what her nadir was supposed to be in TLJ. She's not particularly tempted by the Dark Side, and Star Wars typically isn't subtle about this. Her going to the mirror is presented ambiguously and whether she truly failed with Kylo is yet to be seen as there appears to be more light in him now then there was at the end of TFA.

 

I respect. And I hope you guys will respect when I say that I think BP treated female characters better than TLJ and if @AhsokaSolo think The Last Jedi wasn’t about Rey

 

@Jedi Jessy

Of course - I wasn't in on that discussion and I haven't seen BP yet, but I've been dying to, lol.

That being said, I'm just here for Rey

 

Then what’s with the posts conveying the “why are people still talking about this? Ender already explained it!” sentiment?

Yes despite those earlier posts and the SMH at people continuing to post contrary opinions, people will continue to do so.