ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

Who mentioned hate? Disrespectful yes.

 

And Jazz9276

What in the world is happening here...Did I miss something? When did Rian Johnson disrespect Daisy? I honestly want to know, as that would indeed be worrying.

 

You seem to have forgotten Rian's words about Rey at celebration. KK is the boss and Rey is her prized character.

It could be worse, at least KK talks about Rey. She literally has never spoken about Finn publicly, and that's not a exaggeration. Rey is the character she talks most about in interviews, so if she didn't like what Rian wrote for her character he would have been fired.

 

"It's a story about a female Jedi."

 

As far as I can tell, Rian has done nothing of the sort. It's that certain folks here in the thread aren't pleased with how Rian chooses to talk about Rey in his interviews, which is very likely due to his desire not to give anything away about her narrative in the film. I think part of why Rian focuses on Rey's relationships with Luke and Kylo are because they're literally the plot points that we all know about already going into the film.

While Rian's track record with female characters isn't the absolute best, I wouldn't say it's outright bad either. There's female characters in his films that I do distinctly remember and find them to be distinct and memorable, even not all of them were fully fleshed out or got center focus in the story. Honestly my two favorite women from Rian's films so far are both in The Brothers Bloom (Penelope and especially Bang Bang). There's certainly more interest and uniqueness in the female characters from Rian's films than the women from Trevorrow's filmography.

Which honestly makes me excited to see how Rian adjusts to the change of having a female character as his film's main protagonist (even if there are other main characters too). Daisy clearly seemed to enjoy working with Rian and Kathleen seems ecstatic about the results of Rian's work, and we all know just how big a deal Rey is to the both of them. And let's also consider just how excited and outright giddy Rian is about Rose and introducing the world to Kelly Marie Tran and her character too.

 

I think the best female characters evolve out of non-gender specific scripts (think Ripley from Alien). The fact of the matter is, while it's important not to stumble on unfortunate stereotypes, I don't think writing gender-specific roles ever really improves upon the character. Just write the character so that it could be either male or female and your female lead is probably going to be a great symbol for equality. I think Rian has probably just written a great, well-rounded character and I don't think he's going to write in anything that's specifically gender specific.

 

I never said he's disrespected Daisy. Or any of the cast for that matter.

His recent interviews and some of the things he's talked about or suggested have really soured me on him again though. Which is weird considering how high I was feeling after celebration and D 23.

Maybe I'll change my mind down the road but I really don't want to read or hear anything else from him right now. When press starts up for MOTOE and we get all those wonderful Daisy interviews/articles you know SW will be included. I want to enjoy them without Rian included is all.

Daisy seems happy with Rey's arc. That's why I want her interviews and to get more of her insight. One is giving me hope while the other is ... well, not so much.

 

That sounds an awful lot like the best female characters should have their femaleness scrubbed out of them.

Out of curiosity: do the best male characters generally start out non-gender-specific? Or rather, does anyone even have the expectation that male characters shouldn't have gender-specific qualities in order to be considered interesting characters?

(For the record, I think Rey is a gender-specific character. Quoting KK: "I found it really interesting when I first stepped into this job, and I started to look at, ‘What does it mean to be a female hero?’ And I think the character of Rey [in ‘The Force Awakens’], the character of Jyn [in ‘Rogue One’], these are empowered women that are not necessarily just taking on male characteristics. They’re genuinely female heroines. And I think that’s really important to the way we tell stories. I think it will make a difference.")

 

I'm confused. I'm sorry if someone feels that way, but for me, he's done absolutely nothing to make me think he disrespects daisy or the cast. if we talk about the actors, not the characters..... he never talked about Adam driver or John or Oscar once in the interview as same as daisy and other younger cast. but at the same time, he didn't get any question asked about working with them in real life yet? but we will get that question for sure during press( he did mention John once and Daisy twice on twitter called her amazing and wish her happy birthday even she has no social media) how this is disrespectful to her?

As for the character, I understand someone might upset, not just rey fan but fin and Poe as well, because he simply never really specifically talked about them (yet) except he made it clear since beginning that ep8 is the story focusing on our heroes facing struggles..... and that's clear for me, kylo basically has never really been discussed before until these recent interviews that rian mentioned him. And what Rian said are appropriate for the question at least for me. We all know kylo's struggles and that is one of the most compelling conflicts to take away from 7. His answer satisfies me, as Rey fan I want to know more about character as well, but I'm not worried if he doesn't talk about character yet because, on the other hand, I don't want to know anything about her until a movie comes out.I just want Daisy to talk about experiences making this movie, her life and such more than anything about Rey. However, I know exactly that what rain said or done in SW couldn't please everyone at once in the first place because everyone has his/her own favourite character and wants to see his/her character shine and has a good story. I hope what rian did will do justice for rey as well as other characters.

I don't know if anyone here follows his twitter, but as far as I can tell from what he normally responds, likes and discuss with fan or people around him. he's far far far away from disrespectful person and misogyny, and everything involved with Rey, women injustice and female empowers are the things he normally gives a like and responds to the most.

 

Daisy Ridley: "J. J. honestly writes the most amazing roles for women. But I also think it's that thing of like it doesn't really matter whether—it becomes like—it's not a thing that I'm a woman. It's just like he's written a script that's amazing and it just so happens that Rey is a woman if you see what I mean. So it doesn't feel like 'oh I'm being this role that's been written—[It's just a character] Yeah! It just is what it is."



Rey isn't running around Ahch-To in high heels (being written as a 'woman') trying to escape the giant monster...yet. Nor should she be.

But there's also other ways to be dismissive of the Rey character in a writer (let's call him Jian Rohnson) writes her like the characters portrayed by female actors in his other movies.

 

Apart from the fact that she defies the stereotypes that other male characters put on her (Finn holding her hand for instance), what 'femaleness' would be scrubbed out if the character was written non-gender-specific? For instance gender-specific writing can be seen in ROTJ when Leia is made Jabba's slave. But does a character need a role like that in order for them to be a strong female character? No.

I'm saying the best lead characters are those that are written in a way that they can be filled by those of either gender. Luke, Rey, etc, could both be played by those of the opposite gender and the character wouldn't lose any of the impact of being a strong, relatable character. While there are always places for roles that emphasise the characteristics of a certain gender (for instance I think Leia is a gender-specific role due to the fact that she is a Princess, typically a damsel, that defies this stereotype), the characters that do the most for equality are those written as everyman/woman, where their gender isn't emphasised within the writing, but by the fact they are a specific gender doing anything the other gender can do. There are gender-specific roles that are important. But I think the lead should often be gender neutral, with the auxiliary characters acting as characters that emphasis certain gender-specific characteristics.

 

But you're making it sound like gender-specific characteristics can only be negative. There's a big difference between characters that are specifically male or female, and informed by being male or female, on one hand; and characters that are badly written and rely on lazy stereotypes and sexist tropes, on the other.

Luke was the kind of character anybody can identify with, but in the specifics of the characterisation, he was still recognisably a young man. Had he been written as Lucy instead, she would have been different. The female experience is different. Female archetypes are different (read: not necessarily "worse"). Female characters' dynamics with other characters are different. The Vader-Lucy dynamic in itself would have been different from Vader-Luke - even if it unfolded exactly the same way, it would have come across as different. You can take all this into account and still write a powerful character everybody can identify with.

This thread seems to have the view that "women written as women" = "women written badly".

ETA: For the record, I think the "Stop holding my hand!" thing was an example of lazy writing in TFA. It's such a trite way to signal "I don't need no stinkin' man's help to look after myself", when the story itself made it amply clear that she could indeed take care of herself in any possible situation.

 

I practically said the exact opposite.

But ask yourself how much of this requires different writing and how much is implied by the viewer. You're right - the female experience is different and the Vader-Lucy dynamic would be different. I contend that the character can be written gender-neutral and the female experience and the dynamic is added by the audience as implied sub-text. What writing, apart from the obvious dialogue changes, would need to be changed if Luke were a female in the OT for instance?

I literally said the exact opposite in my post. How much of this is your comprehension of my posts and you deciding what you want to have been in them for your argument?

EDIT: I understand how my original post sounded like I was dismissing specifically female leads being written as females. For the record I also think specifically male leads should be written neutrally. I also only think that this applies to fantastical stories - for true stories or stories set in a real-world context sometimes gender specific roles are important given a historical/social context.

 

I must be a very bad reader, then, because I thought you used Leia as Jabba's slave as an example of (negative) gender-specific writing, and Leia as Princess/damsel in distress as an example of a gender-specific writing that was done well because the (negative) gender-specific role was subverted.

You also said that the characters that do most for equality are ones that are non-gender-specific. Where are you saying that gender-specific characters can be done well? Because, of course, they can. Nor is gender-specific character = stereotypes and tropes. But you do know that.

For my part, I think the best thing we can all do for gender equality is to stop devaluing the female experience and traditionally feminine characteristics, whilst writing women as humans who have a full human range of potential stories to be told about them. I don't really have an argument beyond that.

 

Apart from the fact you said I said that gender-specific roles can only be negative (yet you admit here you understood that the Princess/damsel dynamic being subverted was a good example I gave), no I wasn't saying that Leia as Jabba's slave was a negative (she uses her chains to kill Jabba).

Because generally they have a slightly wider appeal and relatability across genders. While a female or male may not relate as well to a gender-centric character (yes, I know they still can) a gender-neutrally written character a have far broader relatability.

I gave an example of Princess Leia. Mon Mothma and Padme are also good examples. Wonder Woman is another.

Agreed. There are great and positive gender specific characteristics for both genders. I just think often it is projected onto the character by the audience, rather than being written into the character by the writer. Wonder Woman is a case of it being written into the character, whilst Mon Mothma, for instance, is projected (I think).

 

i see more ridiculous outrage garbage and i don't even know what it's about or where it's from.

 

I wouldn't qualify doing something silly because a fan asked while musing over how bad the cereal in the box is and how he was poking fun at it with daisy earlier as disrespectful. Yeesh.

Also, reminder that Kathy Kennedy, whilst gushing about Rian at celebration, also made it a point to highlight his work with the female characters. Rian's track record with female characters hasn't been STELLAR, but I also think that if he were to receive some push back from the other creators about how he wrote the women in star wars he'd take it into consideration.

I'm not ready to hang him out to dry at this point of the game at any rate. We've still only had one trailer and a BTS reel, I'd rather see the whole film before passing such a broad judgement against him.

 

Just re-posting my question here as I can't find the article or articles where RJ "scribbles all over Rey's face." This is confusing to me and I'd like to understand the basis of it. Links to sources, etc.

 

He scribbled on a cereal box with Rey's face at Celebration and complained about the cereal not tasting good. (In which case I agree about the cereal - it has a bad aftertaste in particular.)

 

Did he draw a moustache? And googly eyes?

 

So the fact that Rian did a silly doodle on a picture of Rey meant he was being disrespectful to Rey? That's the biggest reach I've ever heard.

Sorry Dark Horse, but I don't think you have too much ground to stand on here.

 

and to add on to that, not particularly scribbled just put the moustache on her face as the fan asks, and rian jokingly said " sorry dazz" with adoration. He also said something along the line that he bought the cereal and that he sent the box's picture to daisy as well. if this is actually the situation really referring to as disrespectful, I genuinely couldn't agree. when I watched the clip I think he absolutely adores her, I don't know where to find the clip now if anyone finds it you can judge it for yourself. but I will try to find.

 

seriously guys I was not going to sign in but you know I am entitled to my opinion and I will stick by it. But bloody hell if your going to act as judge and jury over my sentiments which are my own I am going defend myself. Sure if you like orchestrate fights with me, all I can ask is why. This is a forum, I pointed out something I didn't like but the mods know that I disagree with a lot I say. But I try and say it and move on. Am happy you disagree, good for you. But don't call me out when I have tried to keep my gob shut and keep my own council for the past what twelve hours? You know trying to let it subside and not let it carry on. Although it seems some are on a mission to try and pull me in to make some antagonizing argument. Does it full your satisfaction, do you get some rush are you trying to bait or goad me. Your not going my mind so am leaving it that.

 

I found the clip if this is the clip everyone referring too...... people can judge it for themselves though... for me, it's him goofing around and I think it's cute he calls daisy Dazz, that's all for me. but Everyone has an opinion.


https://mobile.twitter.com/ManuelDuarte24/status/854836750946095104/video/1

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/854836289094504448/pu/vid/480x480/2luh-dIBqFZLGSo6.mp4

 

Stop making these discussions personal.