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TFA TLJ Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by Darth_Voider, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Learned that heroes can disappoint. Mentors can only take you so far and that you are ultimately responsible for your destiny should you choose to take it and surpass said mentor. It's not just about copying them. And that instincts, foresight and righteousness aren't everything. Keep an open mind but don't let your brain fall out. If you have friends it's good to keep them around. Listen to what people are telling you instead of what you want to hear.

    Kenobis, plural, is the man speaking to her in her force-back? ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  2. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Don’t think Kylo lied. That would indicate that he knew the truth.
     
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  3. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    Again how did any of that factor into the conflict at hand? Thats all really generic stuff that lots of movie try to teach, right alongside "always be yourself". None of it really makes Rey stand out or teach her anything she couldnt learn tons of other ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  4. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    Rey didn't appreciate those things beforehand the way she does now. That fulfils your original criteria. You're now shifting the goalposts to stuff that Rey couldn't learn by watching some DVDs or reading a number books over the course of a few years.

    What do you want? Rey learning that merely having relationships and children is the path to being a servant of evil unless you are prepared to let them go and not let any emotions dictate your response to them being physically threatened and endangered by other evil doers? There's a reason that learning that kind of thing is unique to certain Star Wars movies.

    Since when did it become inappropriate for a Star Wars movie to deal with genuine emotions and their consequences. You know, the truth? Do you want them to make up new truths (like the one that supposedly explains the good Anakin choosing to become a mass murderer) just... "because"?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  5. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    I want her to have a unique heros journey that doesn't amount to her just being responsible for helping a guy she has no reason to care about stop being an awful person.
     
  6. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Rian Johnson said (in one of those Empire or Slashfilm podcasts I think it was) Kylo Ren thinks the version of events he told Rey about Luke trying to straight up murder him is the true version of what happened to him.
     
  7. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Gah. They should have made Kylo female and then some of this stuff wouldn't even be an issue anymore.
     
  8. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 6, 2016
    You want Ren to remain an "awful person"? You want no dialogue and for Rey only to learn zero tolerance and to annihilate anyone who adopts or stands for opposite ideologies rather than with you?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  9. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Fearless Vampire Killer star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Yes. That is clearly what they meant and their statement was not actually, at all, about simply having the character written with clearer, more believable, motivations.
     
  10. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 10, 2016
    No, I want Ren to stop being an awful person because he wants to stop being an awful person.

    Mass murder and becoming a dictator isnt an "opposing ideology". I wouldn't want anyone to have tolerance for someone who kills innocent people.
     
  11. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    The user previously stated that the motives are easily recognisable as commonplace and ordinary and therefore not "unique" a la Star Wars. So believability is not the issue that they were describing. It was lack of uniqueness.

    Believably unique? Or uniquely believable?

    If you don't believe that the force can give people insight into when it is enlightened to show compassion to people who, by all accounts, have not earned it (like people who make it their vocation to do so every day on this planet), then throw out all your DVDs and never watch a Star Wars movie again, until special editions come out where the movies are altered to show only irrational sons saving rather than killing their archly evil fathers. Or have Luke recant his sentimental assessment of his father's "goodness" and kill Vader at the end of ROTJ. F"ather or no father, he had it coming, might as well be me that did it. Take it or leave it, Galaxy."
     
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    No. Because personal history, even if that history is only the childhood idolization of his father, and bloodline make a difference to some of us.

    Obviously the fact that Rey did not even know who Kylo was prior to TFA and knew nothing positive about him since then, does not matter to you, just as “she saw him being good in a vision” does not matter to me. Nothing more to say on that.
     
  13. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    That doesn't make them rational though. So believability does not start with rationality

    That's just not true. It does matter because the elements that transcend logic in Star Wars are what provide us with the kind of story-lines that are particular to the saga. In particular, foresight of one's destiny. The mingling of different individuals thoughts. The proliferation of the values of an ancient religion, including repeating the example set by others in the past. Even when you have no direct connection with them, and when your initial perception of them is proven inaccurate, but your feelings somehow remain.
     
  14. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Rey is a bit like a fairytale character in the sense that "through it all she remained gentle and kind," though she's a fairytale character with an edge. A lot of people would not grow up to be what Rey is, given her background. A lot of people wouldn't even have survived that childhood, let alone become an educated, independent and highly moral adult. I think that Rey actually is an extraordinary and magical sort of case in some ways. I personally think her connection with the Force probably helped her a lot.

    In the beginning of the novelization, Luke has a dream about what his life might have been had he never left Tatooine, and when he wakes up he realizes it's not an ordinary dream. He's shut himself off to the Force so it can't influence him, but when he sleeps it can seep through, and he knows the Force is involved in that dream.

    Even though Rey was unaware of her connection to the Force, it was still reaching her. It was likely a constant source of strength and hope.

    Another example of what I mean is Snow White in Snow White and the Huntsman. She was trapped in that tower for most of her childhood. Yet she is whole when she escapes. IRL, this would be more like those cases in which someone is trapped in a basement for years by someone. One doesn't generally emerge from that whole.

    I've watched programs about feral children and I suspect IRL, Rey would be closer to that as an adult.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  15. Akane

    Akane Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Her scenes with BB-8 say a lot about her, it would have been very easy to exchange the droid for the food portions, but she did not do it because she knew it wasn't the right thing to do. She also asked Finn to stay despite his lie in TFA and in TLJ her main motivation (waiting for Luke, going to Kylo) was to help the resistance.
     
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  16. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    A dream is a wish your heart makes
    When you’re fast asleep
    In dreams you will lose your heartaches
    Whatever you wish for, you keep
    Have faith in your dreams, and someday
    Your rainbow will come smiling through
    No matter how your heart is grieving
    If you keep on believing
    The dream that you wish will come true.

    Indeed.

    :)
     
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  17. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    When your heart is in your dream.
    No request is too extreme.


    Awww. Good night Pinoc-kylo. Sleep tight. Maybe some day you'll be a real boy. ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
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  18. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2016
  19. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I said that “She saw something good in the vision” does not matter to me. A response of “That’s just not true” seems to indicate that you are telling me what matters the me. Pretty sure I am the only one in the position to say what matters to me.

    Yes, Luke was operating based on feelings and not rationality, I have been the first to say that Luke was foolishly idealistic and extremely fortunate that his attempts to reach Vader worked out for him.

    But despite the idealism and irrationality, I understood why Luke was trying to reach Vader: again, childhood idolization and bloodline.

    I cannot even have an inkling of understanding as to why Rey thought she could reach Kylo or should try. “Her feelings” is not enough of an explanation to get me to understand, because I don’t know why she felt the way she did, and “she saw something in a vision” doesn’t work for me either. I don’t know what she saw and I’m not sure it would matter, because I still would not understand why anything she saw in a vision would take precedence over the reality of the interactions she has had with him.
     
  20. DjTomek

    DjTomek Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 20, 2018
    Well she saw him shirtless...maybe even the vision they were both shirtless ? [face_thinking]
     
  21. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    My guess: something something “mysterious-connection-to-be-revealed-in-Ep-9” something.

    There *is* no explanation at the present. Just spec. Don’t particularly like that approach but I do think we’ll get an answer.
     
  22. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    One reason could be that, unlike most of us who have had fathers, she's been around some loathsome people on Jakku her entire life but never had her preternatural gift of perception pushing the predestined redemption of any of those characters. In spite of her initial impulse to kill Kylo (which must have come up on Jakku before this), prolonged (imposed) exposure to him has given her an insight into how she can aspire to both her reluctant master's legacy (such as it was before TLJ) and her late would be mentor Han. She's interpreting that this and her feelings, extraordinary as they are, have laid out the destiny that she just needs to fling herself at and she will fulfill it. Then she will belong, with the likes of Han, and with Luke as heroes. She thinks. She's not right though.

    I must have misread the matters bit you were pointing out. My mistake.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  23. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Rey could see into Kylo's mind/soul and she had a Force vision that showed her his future. I don't understand why this explanation is insufficient. It's kind of the explanation from the movie.
     
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  24. JoJoPenelli

    JoJoPenelli Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2000
    Because it’s difficult for some of us to understand or care given that 1. We aren’t shown what she sees, 2. We aren’t told what she sees, and 3. Didn’t she really hate him yesterday?

    Not saying that we won’t understand or care when we learn more in Ep 9, mind you. Just that we think what TLJ presented us with was indufficient (perhaps deliberately so). The abilty to come up with some reasonable explanation isn’t always a substitute for narrative clarity.
     
  25. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Regarding #3 Didn't she really hate him yesterday... that makes assumptions about Rey as a person. Rey by the end of TLJ has turned out to be a person who doesn't hold grudges and is capable of great forgiveness. This is a character trait. TFA didn't show Rey to be a person who keeps grudges, though it didn't show her to be a person who doesn't either. We simply didn't know either way. TLJ has shown more of who Rey is as a character. Basically TFA didn't tell us a lot about who Rey is, and then when TLJ gave more information some are rejecting it because TFA gave us all a lot of room to sub in who Rey is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018