ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

The hero's journey was created thousands of years ago, of course it was created with a man in mind. That doesn't mean every hero has to be a man, or if they're a woman they have to have another type of journey. There's nothing in a typical hero's journey that a woman wouldn't be able to do. It's 2018.

 

Daisy is currently answering questions on Star Wars' facebook btw

 

Daisy just called Kylo still redeemable.

 

@Ender_and_Bean
I really appreciate the depths of your posts, even if I don't necessarily agree with them. AS you said, most people, casuals and critics, myself included, saw Rey igniting the lightsaber in TFA as her moment as accepting the Force inside her and her place as the hero of the story. Was it a mistake to have TLJ occur right after TFA? I ask because it feels like both Rey and Finn went through micro development in 2.5 hours instead of a full movie's worth of development?

So if Rey has only now completed the transition part of the hero's journey, does that mean her nadir will be in the next movie? Because to me, I wasn't sure exactly what her nadir was supposed to be in TLJ. She's not particularly tempted by the Dark Side, and Star Wars typically isn't subtle about this. Her going to the mirror is presented ambiguously and whether she truly failed with Kylo is yet to be seen as there appears to be more light in him now then there was at the end of TFA.

 

The hero's journey doesn't seem gender neutral to me because the way women are treated as archetypes along the journey. I think that at the very least, it requires some tweaking. Gender is meaningful in all of its archetypes reflecting a male/patriarchal point of view.

 

All I said was that I think Ender does a better job at explaining Rey's journey than I do. For folks who might be interested.

 

What exactly would have to be changed in order to account for the hero's gender here?

 

So why it needs to be only the Hero's Journey and not Heroine's Journey? You criticized Rey's journey because it wasn't Hero's Journey.

Hero's Journey was created for man and Heroine's Journey for woman. Well, sorry, I won't criticize Rey's journey just because it isn't typical man's journey.

It started with this my post:

 

Because that's a completely pedantic distinction to make that has no real inherent value.

 

One thing is that woman is either temptation or over-idealized goddess. Woman is there to lead you astray into the pleasures of the flesh and the darkness (this is huge in Anakin's story).

Woman is NOT man's temptation (in reality). His temptation is his own.

It's like in the hero's journey man is uncomfortable with his sexuality. Woman is either there to tempt him into giving into his flesh, or she is sexless and a goddess/mother figure (which is when she is "good" of course). It reminds me of when women are expected to cover their entire bodies so men around them won't be "tempted."

 

This is absolutely not about this. There is no reason to criticize Rey's path only because it isn't typical Hero's Journey. I can think only about sexist reasons to think like that.

Heroine's journey was created because in our sexist society there wasn't a journey for woman.

 

Also like I said, there is nothing in the Hero's journey that would require a character to be male, unless you rely on out dated stereotypes. We don't need separate Hero and Heroines journeys because it just a vague set of story beats. The call to adventure, refusing the call, the wise mentor, ect. I don't even have an issue with Rey because it's not a "typical hero's journey". Its because it doesn't seem to be her journey at all.

 

I mean, you still have the rather obvious problem of Rey's journey being completely uninteresting that you have to deal with. A character arc being atypical is not really a problem if the execution is done well.

 

Sorry, but I don't know even where to start with "dated stereotypes" when people clearly think that Hero's Journey is superior to Heroine's Journey and are acknowledging that Hero's Journey was created only and only and only for man.

Oh of course Rey needs to have strictly man's path to be cool. No surprise here.

 

They'd also be wrong. A Hero's Journey can be equally applicable to a female character. The gender has nothing to do with the monomyth since the function of it has little to do with the gender of the character within it. It's as simple as that.

No one here has said that.

 

What exactly is a "man's path"?

 

I mean I can see the argument that both the hero's journey and the heroine's journey have a patriarchal bent because both draw from ancient myths and stories mostly from patriarchal cultures. But to think the HERO's JOURNEY is exempt from that is really fascinating... It draws on the same body of stuff, just from the perspective of male characters in those stories.

The journey is supposed to be universal in that it's supposed to reflect the archetypes of the human experience, but naturally archetypes reflect the societies that originated them.

I really do think though that archetypes go deeper than that. The human mind is a constant generator of them, especially in dreams.

 

But what is wrong with characters who happen to be female experiencing that same development? Why is the fact that many male characters have been developed using the same framework even remotely relevant?

 

All the archetypes are backwards and based on male character perceptions in these old stories. Hence my mentioning of what female archetypes they encounter represent. It's all very heterosexual male focused. The archetypes have to be adjusted to match a female gender identity. If I'm a heterosexual woman, I don't consider other women sources of temptation. I don't consider men sources of temptation either. I don't have this sort of way of viewing things in which I'm entitled and therefore my sexual responses are the fault of men around me who I must resist (or control - on the villain end). This is alien to me.

So to cover temptation if it's in the journey, I need different archetypes, and preferably not gender-based ones.

 

Agreed, the classical beats of "the hero`s journey" are genderless. Noone ever needed to create a different journey targeted to women. Luke and Anakin`s stories don`t hinge on their gender at all. Going dark because you are trying to save a spouse or wanting to reconnect with a newfound parent even if that parent seems horrible is not inherently for men. The only reason those roles were filled by men - or rather Luke`s role was filled by a man, once you have the OT as is, you kinda have Anakin`s gender as well - is because it was a product of the times it was produced in.

 

I personally do not see how rey is the main character for TLJ on anything but paper. Its weird for her to disappear for most of the third act if she's the main character. That said, i find it frustrating to see some of the same posters here arguing that she absolutely is the main character, yet on another thread, they'll argue that she's the "han" of the trilogy and her disappearance is no different from han "disappearing" during the final act of ANH.

On a different note, does anyone think daisy is gonna get in trouble for throwing fuel on the fire with her recent interview where she talks about RJ throwing out Abrams' treatment and structure for episode 8? It seems like a strange thing for her to do, especially with the damage control LFL is engaging in.

 

Yeah, I'm not an expert on the hero's journey, but when I've looked at it I see it as quite gendered. I have to alter it in my mind to apply it because of what woman is on man's journey. And it's not just gendered. It's heterosexual.

 

What? Since when is falling in love with a woman a necessary part of a hero's journey? Even if it was, the Hero's journey changes, sometimes parts are left out, or don't happen in a certain order. The Hero's journey changes to be a reflection of the time the Hero is created in.

 

OK, let's take a look at the bare framework of the Hero's Journey.



There is nothing alluding to the hero being male here. You could just as easily make a female protagonist with this same structure and nothing you're describing would be a problem.