ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in the ST

It didn’t strike me as a positive remark.

 

For an actor, playing a neurotic character can be quite exciting. It's usually more interesting than playing a balanced individual.

 

Daisy didn’t seem very excited in that interview.

 

Read into it whatever you like. I've never gotten the impression that she was unhappy with TLJ.

 

Perhaps when 9 comes along, I’ll get a better sense of Rey’s character in TLJ.

 

I have multiple times gotten the impression that DR wasn't thrilled with Rey's characterization in TLJ. I'm not going to search out the sources so if my recollection is wrong, my apologies. However, I recall reading that the first time DR read the TLJ script, she ran to RJ for a talk. She has talked about how she took CF's advice about being the protector of her character seriously. RJ has talked about working closely with DR to come up with a valid reason for Rey to run off to Kylo. Taking all of that combined, I think RJ didn't give her any plausible motive in the first place, DR noticed and complained, and together they came up with the (imo too late in the script) vision of Kylo turning nice. Then on top of that, hearing of JJ's return inspired tears of joy in DR.

Granted, I'm biased. I thought Rey's characterization was embarrassingly bad and sexist in TLJ, so it's easy for me to empathize with the idea that DR might feel similarly. I didn't know she called Rey "neurotic," but that fits in perfectly with the timeline and the (negative) way I personally see Rey.

 

@30 seconds Daisy Ridley says how she feels about TLJ.

 

I've seen that before but I forgot how blunt she is. Gold right there.

 

I've encountered the accusation of sexism before and I can totally see where it's coming from, given the arguments I've read. I understand them and I don't entirely disagree, since it can obviously be viewed from that angle, even though RJ was probably unaware of it at the time because his focus was on his intended interpretation of the portrayal.
I mean, he most likely did not mean for it to just look like "Young, naive girl falls for bad boy's charm and tries to fix him but ends up used and abused", even though that's basically what actually happens in the movie (although I'd argue that there's more to it).

It reminds me of how Jar Jar, though never actually intended that way, is viewed by some as a racial stereotype. I can see why, but it's really an unfortunate by-product of how different elements came together in the process of creating a fun character and frankly, in the context of him being an orange amphibian in the GFFA, with all the circumstances that surround him, I really don't have a problem with his characterization.

That's interesting. Do you mean she said so or did you see it happen?


EDIT: I added a bit more about Jar Jar.

 

She says she did. https://www.nme.com/news/film/daisy-ridley-says-cried-heard-jj-abrams-returning-star-wars-2169371

I hate the idea that RJ simply wrote naive Rey to fall for a bad boy. No. He wrote Rey to fall for her own abductor/tormentor and the murderer/maimer of her friends after catching a glimpse of his bangin pecs.

 

Oh, yeah... Well, I would say that gender ultimately has nothing to do with it. I could easily see the same thing happen if Kylo had been female and Rey had been male, because the point was to have the protagonist believe that the villain could be turned, as Luke once believed in Anakin, to have the protagonist - and the audience - believe that history had a strong chance of repeating itself (especially since it had already repeated itself with the rise of the FO and Kylo Ren).
That's honestly all I took away from it and I actually find it plausible, since Rey has Luke's past success to be inspired by.
During their second conversation, she senses something vulnerable in Kylo as he says that yes, he is a monster. Something human. She's taken aback at that and later, as he continues to display some degree of vulnerability, of softness, she starts to think that maybe he is the key. Not because she's forgiving of what he has done, but because if he can be turned, as Vader was, then the FO will have lost one of it's most powerful leaders to the Resistance.

I don't know, maybe I'm a bit naive, but that's my take on it.

 

I don’t agree that the reverse would have been the same. Luke was given an actual reason to see the good in Vader. Rey needing an actual motivation, as any protagonist does, was wholly overlooked by the writer. Meanwhile, he demoted our female protagonist to “co-protagonist” while he gave her no motivation to give her “co-protagonist” the benefit of the doubt.

Sensing “something vulnerable” in Kylo isn’t a motivation. Rey has no reason to care. Teenage girls, just like all other humans, don’t search for something sympathetic in their tormentors a couple days after the torment. They don’t look for something sympathetic in the murderers/maimers of their friend’s a couple days after the murder/maiming. Rey doesn’t get the idea that he can be turned until after finger touching, after she laughably assures him that she’s there for him.

 

She didn't look for it. It showed itself.
And all humans don't function the same way. She loathes Kylo at first, sure, but it seems like she's open-minded enough to listen to him once she realizes that it's probably not as simple as him being a monster. She's a good hearted person with a lot of faith. That's how she survived as well as she did on Jakku.

 

This is a situation in which absent knowing what happened, we have to wait and see in Episode IX. Why does Rey see something in Kylo? Is it simply they both share this immense power and can relate to each other? Is there a forgotten/mysterious history between them? Are they related, and that's why there's a connection? All three scenarios are legitimate, but there is a lot more drama as you check off each box. And IMO, it's a lot easier to relate to Rey the more boxes you can check off. Most people can relate to wanting to save a brother, while it becomes a lot more difficult to relate to wanting to save a homicidal maniac you don't even know. Not that the second one isn't interesting and perhaps more to the ultimate point.

 

There’s just a lot going on in the characters’ minds we’re not privy too.

This seems to be by design considering what Jason Fry said about not being able to write about Kylo’s thoughts in the hut scene due to “spoilers for 9.”

I think it’s understandable for audience members to be confused when the creators don’t want us to understand the thoughts/feelings of the main characters and instead prioritize “ambiguity” =\

 

I didn't see anything showing itself. When Kylo called himself a "monster," I saw a clear cut psychopath. There was nothing relatable about it, especially in the context of the things he has done to her and in front of her, and in the context of the way he started ranting about how much parents suck when she asked how he could murder his own father.

Rey being "open-minded" toward her abductor, tormentor, and the murderer of her friends is as ridiculous as it would be if Rey went into Snoke's throne room begging him to see the light and be a good person now because she is here for him. She is, after all, a good hearted person with a lot of faith. Why is Kylo the only psycho benefactor of it? Besides his bangin pecs of course.

Edit ~ and yes, it is as simple as him being a monster. He had no sympathetic reason to gut Han in front of her, or to stalk her and Finn into the woods and maim Finn. This kind of "motivation" is not normal. People don't watch someone murder someone they care for in a crazy psycho "monster" kind of way, as Rey put it, and then two days later think that maybe this stranger murderer has more to him. She has no reason to give a damn. People don't invest their emotions or their time into total strangers that have already violated them in horribly violent, personal ways within the previous week, barring serious psychological disorders. No one would write that for a man and I think most people wouldn't write it for a woman either. It's ridiculous, especially when you add the pecs and the implications of romance on top. Whenever people try and rationalize it, it comes off to me like an insult to real life naive teenage girls. Naive teenage girls don't behave this way, just like nobody else does. People, including naive teenagers, have normal instincts to protect themselves from violence and threats, which Kylo clearly is.

 

Padme gets alot of slack for marrying Anakin after his confession about his slaughter of the Tuskens but it's ok for Rey to want to love Kylo to redemption? Padme didn't even see the deed, Rey witnessed Kylo's maiming of Finn after murdering Han and torturing her.

 

What this boils down to is believability. Is it believable that Rey's view of Kylo would change so rapidly?
To me, it is. But then, I've never really had a problem with believing what I see in Star Wars. Padmé falling in love with and marrying Anakin, no problems there. Anakin buying into Palpatine's promises, absolutely. Han going back to smuggling as a way of dealing with the family tragedy, sure thing. Luke briefly/instinctively considering the murder of Ben, yep.
Rey realizing that it's not as simple as Kylo being a monster, most definitely.
Because it is what happens. And because I think it feels real.

I may not agree with everything these characters are doing, but I accept the reality that it is what they're doing. Projecting one's own moral values onto Rey and saying "No one in their right mind would do that" is, I feel, missing the point that a) everyone has their own moral values and b) she probably isn't in her right mind.
It's been an extremely turbulent week and she's desperately trying to cope with it all by finding an anchor, such as a parent or a mentor. Like DR said, she's pretty neurotic, which is perfectly understandable after all she's been through.
Luke turns out not to be the anchor she's looking for, so she keeps looking and the only thing she finds is understanding from the man she views as a monster, bringing with it the hope that he could come back to the light and turn the tide of the war.
Suddenly, she's found a purpose and she adamantly holds on to it.

In the end, I think she is both right and wrong. Right in that there is conflict in Ben and that it's possible for him to turn back, wrong in her unwavering trust in him... because as it turns out, he has an agenda of his own - though at the same time, he is drawn to her, because he too is desperate for an anchor, for someone to rely on. He feels that they can relate to each other and her growing acceptance of the fact that he is a conflicted human being gives him hope that she can be convinced to join him.

Rey learns an important lesson through her failure with Kylo. The film ultimately doesn't support her easy change of heart regarding the "monster" Kylo Ren. Quite the opposite. It's yet another cautionary tale in the Saga... that still, as far as I can see, has nothing to do with gender roles.

 

I think the main reason for Rey to sympathize with Kylo was the force, specifically the dark side. Try to imagine the situation from her POV: she has just discovered she has this special ability and has been (mostly) rejected by Luke to really learn about it. He offers no answers. She goes to the cave and it offers no answers. Thus, who can she turn to? Chewie may be a friend but he is not a force user so he cannot directly relate with her. Luke has only pushed her away and chastised her for going to the dark in the first lesson. While Luke knows personally about this temptation, he does not explain why she should ignore the dark side/cave’s call. However, someone else knows about the dark side. Someone who is the only available force user at the moment. Someone who previously offered to teach her: Kylo Ren.

Beggars can’t be choosers and so she is salvaging her situation.

I understand how that might not be nearly enough to overcome what he has done to her, but I see solid groundwork and it works for me.

 

Have no clue how you sees her compassion as sexist. Just because she wants to redeem him as a person doesn't make her weak. It makes her a good person. She doesn't get fooled into ruling the galaxy with Kylo, and she cuts off their force bond at the end of the movie once she realized Kylo isn't changing.

 

LOL, she literally explains that she doesn't like watching herself & that the rest of the film is fantastic!!!

 

That’s fair.
Meditate on this, I will.

 

It’s not that I think Rey is sexist. I think RJ approaches her from an unintentionally sexist POV. Rey doesn’t have a motive after Kylo shows her his bare pecs. Random friendship with the guy that tortured/abducted you and murdered/maimed your friends a few days ago isn’t a good person quality. It’s definitely not a rational motive for a protagonist to do crazy things. It’s a Stockholm Syndrome symptom.

Of course she doesn’t get “fooled” into ruling the galaxy with him. His offer was literally for her to help him slaughter her friends first. RJ couldn’t even give her a relatably tempting motivation to go with Kylo.

Rey does not come off as a good person in TLJ to me. She comes off silly and self absorbed. She’s lying to Luke while she hangs out with the person she knows is obsessed with finding and murdering Luke. She waltzes Luke’s location right to the FO. She doesn’t bring up her people that Kylo is slaughtering to Kylo until the very end, and when she brings them up and Kylo offers that she kill them and join him, RJ thought we should feel she’d be tempted. A good person wouldn’t be tempted to slaughter their friends.

 

While I think your view is valid, I’d like to point out that Kylo’s offer to Rey is meant to mirror Vader’s to Luke. Rey glances briefly at the outstretched hand, as if considering, then goes for the saber.

Luke, too, glances briefly at the black gloved hand outstretched to him and rejects it in a rather emphatic fashion.

I feel that if Rey is judged harshly for not instantly rejecting Kylo’s offer, Luke should be as well for not immediately rejecting Vader’s.