Dark Empire Revelations.Anser to the question:Why did the Empire make so many superweapons?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Matthew Trias, Jul 20, 2001.

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  1. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 4
    Since the TC take their numbers from observation of the Cannon Movies and the quotes of the Model-Makers i have no problem with that.

    Of course since nowhere in the DE-Comic is mentioned that the Eclipse is twice as long/big/whatever you want compared to the Executor and this is perhaps only mentioned in the DE-Sourcebook it shows how poorly researched those materials are.

    If the writer of that thing had taken his time to watch SW at least once he should have recognized that the material he was taking his sizes was wrong.
  2. III_Vir_RPC Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 1
    Matthew, you are overlooking details of vital importance:

    (1.) Dark Empire is the primary reference for the Eclipse, and it explicitly states the following:

    ------
    The Emperor's command vessel, ten miles from stem to stern, seems designed to inspire dread in every possible opponent.
    ------

    This, explicit evidence from a primary source, overrules data gleaned from secondary and tertiary sources, such as the Dark Empire Sourcebook.

    (2.) The primary source for the Executor and her sister ships are The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, which clearly demonstrate 17.6 kilometres to be these vessels' length.

    (3.) The Star Destroyers flanking the Eclipse are not of the Imperator-class; note their lack of major hangar bays. They are the same class as the ill-fated Allegiance, called a "Super Star Destroyer" by Dark Empire; Dr Saxton estimates their length at 2.2 kilometres, to the Imperator's 1.6 kilometres.

    (4.) The Dark Empire Sourcebook comparison chart is erroneous in its depictions of vessels.

    Relax, Matthew---this thread is intended for discussion of The Emperor Reborn and his superweapons. The Eclipse was a superweapon, so it qualifies for the discussion.
  3. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    To discuss the purpose of his superweapons!!

    Not the size!We'll go around in circles...

    Size discussions never end...

    For instance , if you ask me the Executor appears to change sizes throughout the movies...

    Now you'll give me some facts ,and we'll go on and on, and neither one of us will convince the other.
  4. bongles Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2001
    star 1
    TOS has firmly established the size of the Executor, even going as far as to mention the erroneous five mile length.

    http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/superstardestroyer/bts.html

    And curtis saxton scares the hell out of me.
  5. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Well I assume that when they say height,they mean length. :p

    You guys win then.Now that I think about it...I remember that Pellaeon makes a remark about only the Executor being as large as the Night Hammer.A possible continuity fix by KJA?I dunno.

    But in anycase that would explain alot.Maybe she was larger because she needed room for some kind of experimental shield generators?She was able to handle three Imperial Class Star Destroyers ramming her side.Ships like Iron Fist ,and Lusankya weren't able to take much...maybe they didn't have Executor's shielding.

  6. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
  7. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    III_Vir...
    "Relax, Matthew---this thread is intended for discussion of The Emperor Reborn and his superweapons."

    I'm quite certain the creator of the thread knows better than anyone what his intentions were for it. :D
  8. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
  9. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    Me personally I think it's like the old story about guys who get sporstcars compensating for a "shortage" of some other aspect of their "personalities"

    Only this is the megalomaniacal version of it. Instead of the latest landspeeder in classic red Palpatine wants something usually very massive that'll obliterate planets.

    Either way it's a very weak individual strutting around like he's the big bad.

    Heck, if you want to quibble Palpatine's use of the Darkside of the Force could be seen as compensation of an apparent spiritual weakness.
  10. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    There is another possibility not yet considered in this discussion- perhaps the purpose of multiple superweapons would be simply for the purpose of balance.

    You have a superweapon, what do you do if it falls into the hands of an enemy or renegade imperial? Easy- use another superweapon against it.

    Someone manages to gain control of your Galaxy Gun. Making sure your Death Star isn't staying in a stationary position (as to not make it an easy GG target) you move it through hyperspace where, upon exiting, opens fire with it's weapon emplacements and primary weapon to attempt to destroy/disable the GG.

    Vice versa, a certain Grand Moff, during Vader's absence of tracking down rebel cells in his star destroyer, has decided to pull a power play and go and aim that baby at Coruscant or whereever the Emperor happens to be at. Wait till the Death Star parks itself in orbit around Coruscant, relay the info to your forces at the GG and blow the sucker away/turn it into the Jacko-Death Star [face_batting]

    I'd imagine the world devastators would be quite effective if they got their maws on the surface of a moon-sized battle station.

    The Sun Crusher would be the only real exception since there really is no counter for it. Unless one developed a counter for the torps it fired.
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Actually a suncrusher can be damaged by a DS laser. Half-powered laser, melst system components. Full powered do far more damage. It's the focused energy that makes the difference.
  12. Nom Anor TFN Books Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2000
    star 4
    Personally I feel that the Technical Commentaries, although very well done, place too much emphasis on the hundreds of Star Destroyer types. In reality there are not near this many. The author puts way to much stock in poorly drawn comics. Just because the Star Destroyer seems to be missing a hangar bay in the picture doesn't mean it's a whole new class of ship. Remember that Dark Empire was before the giant continuity empire that Star Wars is now, so inconsistancies were commonplace.

    Just my $.02
  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    well, even so, it'd be pretty tricky for the DS superlaser to nail a target as small as a starfighter. Heck, the DS2's main refinement was the ability to target cap ships. The darksaber, had it functioned, might have been ablet to pull it off, but I doubt a DS could bullseye the sun crusher...unless you could tractor beam the sucker in place long enough to get a shot off.
  14. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Actually It happened in JAT with the deathstar prototype, read it again.
  15. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    It would be simple to control em.

    Put Sithspawn on every superweapon. ;)

    I assume he had a plan in mind.Something to do with the Dark Side.

    He was almost a god in Dark Empire.
  16. Ghost_of_Caesar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 4
    For instance , if you ask me the Executor appears to change sizes throughout the movies...


    The only reason the Executor appears to change size throughout the movies is the perspective caused by the camera angle. The Executor's size is easily established using reduction scales and photographs of the actual props/models.
  17. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 4
    Just my two thoughts to the "many" types of Stardestroyers.

    Even if we really blame some "poorly" drawn comic, where a ship lacks a hangarbay or has no or a bigger reactor-bulb, this discussion is always done under "suspension of disbelief".

    This simply means, that what you see is what you get and since we have seen dozens of different destroyer-designs, we have to accept that there are dozens of them, despite everything what secondary sources claim.

    Of course we can also request that the entire official and expanded universe is putted down the abyss. In that case we would have only to deal with three or four types of imperial ships. The Executor and the different destroyerdesigns (ISD-Is, ISD-IIs, the unknown destroyer from RotJ).
  18. Nom Anor TFN Books Staff

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    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2000
    star 4
    Perhaps "poorly drawn" wasn't the best choice of words on my part. When drawing comics, especially during the time when Dark Empire was published, it is unrealistic to draw every ship in the background in perfect detail and accuracy. I feel that the destroyers we should actually acknowledge are the ones referred to in sourcebooks and other official material. Now, I don't own most of the old WEG sourcebooks, so I'm not sure what's in them, but I do know we can confirm that the Empire used the following destroyer types:

    Victory-class (and Victory II-class)
    Imperial (and Imperial II-class)
    Super (Executor)-class
    Eclipse-class

    I've heard that the Sovereign-class was in the Dark Side Sourcebook, and I'm sure I've left out a few that are official mentioned. But some destroyers could just be modified custom jobs (which is what I think Jerec's ship Vengeance amounts to).

    Differences in drawings don't amount to new class types. For example, every time we see the Executor it looks a little bit different or has a panel in a different place. But does this make numerous version of the Executor? No.

    Please, somebody fill me in if I'm completely wrong, if I missed something, or if I'm just completely headed in the wrong direction with this.
  19. Mateo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2001
    star 4
    Wasnt The Eye of Palpatine, the first Imperium class ship constructed? its bigger than the Eclipse and has better weapons except for the Superlaser which it didnt have, if the eye had succeededin its mission i wonder what Emperor Palpatine would have used it for.
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