Lit "Dark Jedi" and "Sith": a blunder on the EU's part

Discussion in 'Literature' started by purplerain, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    I don't see how the EU led anyone to believe a darksider is inherently a Sith, but I can see how the movies could lead people to believe that.

    In the movies, everyone who (consistently) uses the dark side is a Sith, so I can see how people who have only seen the movies would think that everyone who uses the dark side is a Sith.

    As for the OP, I don't consider it a blunder or even a mistake to refer to darksiders of no specific group as Dark Jedi.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Nov 6, 2013
    Skywalker Thing likes this.
  2. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Leland Chee himself defined the concept of Dark Jedi a long time ago anyways:

    "A dark Jedi is anyone who practices the dark side of the Force whether or not they were a former Jedi."
    Hoss Delgado and purplerain like this.
  3. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    I disagree, there is still a massive line between Sith and dark Jedi. A dark jedi simply uses the Force for personal gain and adheres to no code of ethics, a Sith is part of a distinct lineage and tradition and is bound to a certain code.
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5

    [IMG]
    "No! I take what I desire! I am the living Lord of the Sith! This is not the truth and it is not my destiny! I forge my own way, I walk a new path, and if you will not serve me, be gone!"
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I like the idea of a Dark Jedi being a Force user who just does not give a **** whether he/she is using the Force for dark purposes or not as long as he/she benefits from it, whereas a Sith is actually part of a group.

    I think the Sith are more power-hungry as well.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  6. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    In a way, yes.

    "A Dark Jedi, on the other hand, has much smaller ambitions. He—or she—thinks only of himself. He acts alone. The ultimate goal is not galactic conquest, but personal wealth and importance. Like a common thug or criminal, he revels in cruelty and selfishness. He preys upon the weak and vulnerable, spreading misery and suffering wherever he goes."
    ---Jedi Master Obba
    Mia Mesharad and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  7. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I might agree if the "Dark Jedi" archetype wasn't more or less completely subsumed after the prequels by the Sith. Given that the Sith code is a reaction to the Jedi code and their existence is more or less defined by philosophical opposition to the Jedi, they've definitely filled that narrative niche. I would agree that categorically "Dark Jedi" might be slightly larger than "Sith" but from a narrative perspective at this point those that don't fall under "Sith" largely aren't of interest to writers and aren't going to be central antagonists.

    For instance, if Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 were written now the seven Dark Jedi would be seven Sith without a doubt.
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I don't know- the Nightsisters of Dathomir are rather clearly Not Sith in TCW- yet they can still be called "Dark Jedi" using Chee's definition.
    Mia Mesharad and purplerain like this.
  9. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    [IMG]

    non-existence != inherent impossibility.

    Also, "the Sith have been exinct for a millenium" implies that not just any Jedi can become a Sith. In fact, Ki-adi was implying that Maul, who was known to be a darksider trained in the Jedi arts, isn't a Sith.
    Last edited by purplerain, Nov 6, 2013
  10. AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    Back when writing HttE, there was nothing about the Sith. Dark Jedi was the term used in the WEG RPG. Zahn wanted to make the Noghri the Sith, to explain Vader's title of Dark Lord of the Sith, but Lucas said no on that. So early on, Sith was not correlated with the Dark Force users, that came later.
    Skywalker Thing and purplerain like this.
  11. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Wasn't Lumiya referred to as "Dark Lady of the Sith" in Marvel SW?
  12. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    yes
  13. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Still not sure exactly where people would've ever been confused between Dark Jedi and Sith. Zahn unknowingly made sure that'd never happen by coining the term Dark Jedi from the very start, and thereafter whenever a Dark Side Force User popped up it was made clear whether or not he/she was a Sith.
  14. _Catherine_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Srsly don't get what the issue is here. The movies suggest the existence of non-Sith darksiders with the Jedi's reaction to Maul, pre-1999 Palpatine, and arguably Dooku at the end of AOTC, but at the same time all four darksiders who appear in the movies are clearly stated to the audience to be Sith. So we know what the movie characters are, and we also know that there can be other types of darksiders that don't appear in the movies. Who is getting confused over what, and how is it the EU's fault?
    Dr. Steve Brule and purplerain like this.
  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    This thread is confusing me.
    Son of a Bith likes this.
  16. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I didn't mean to say that it's any source's fault as much as I was saying that the meanings have evolved over the years.
  17. Hoss Delgado Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2013
    star 1
    I'd have liked to see the writers try to worm out of that one after TPM.
    Last edited by Hoss Delgado, Nov 6, 2013
    purplerain likes this.
  18. purplerain Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 2013
    star 4
    I think GL said no because the Rule of Two was in effect during the movies. However, I guess the EU could have retconned the Rule of Two into only being about Sith Lords.
  19. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Hence Dooku's training of Ventress (but not in the "Sith Arts").
  20. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    No. She was referred to as "the new Dark Lord" but there was no indication of what.
    Skywalker Thing likes this.
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Good point- I think the Talk page for her on Wookieepedia attributes Star Wars Gamer as the source to use "Dark Lady of the Sith" for her (the Nagai seem to refer to her as just "Dark Lady" in Marvel).
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  22. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    When/where?

    Edit: ignore this I was to fast to post, did not read all the comments
    Last edited by Gamiel, Nov 6, 2013
  23. DarthSanctimonious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 18, 2006
    star 3
    As much as I agree with the general sentiment, I am loathe to use DE as a reason for anything.
  24. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    A Dark Jedi is a Jedi who has embraced the Dark Side of the Force. A Sith, can either be: 1) The Species called Sith. They were originally called 'The Lord of the Sith' meaning that they made the Sith their servants. or 2) The Sith we see in the OT and PT.
    purplerain likes this.
  25. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    [IMG]

    At least back then, they knew to end stories on an optimistic note, and only to kill off characters no one cared about (amirite?). I'm not sure what's worse: that they killed Jacen, or that fans show more grief about it than his parents and the sister that killed him?