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Lit "Dark Jedi" and "Sith": a blunder on the EU's part

Discussion in 'Literature' started by purplerain, Nov 5, 2013.

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  1. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 5, 2011
    I don't see how the EU led anyone to believe a darksider is inherently a Sith, but I can see how the movies could lead people to believe that.

    In the movies, everyone who (consistently) uses the dark side is a Sith, so I can see how people who have only seen the movies would think that everyone who uses the dark side is a Sith.

    As for the OP, I don't consider it a blunder or even a mistake to refer to darksiders of no specific group as Dark Jedi.
     
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  2. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Leland Chee himself defined the concept of Dark Jedi a long time ago anyways:

    "A dark Jedi is anyone who practices the dark side of the Force whether or not they were a former Jedi."
     
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  3. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I disagree, there is still a massive line between Sith and dark Jedi. A dark jedi simply uses the Force for personal gain and adheres to no code of ethics, a Sith is part of a distinct lineage and tradition and is bound to a certain code.
     
  4. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004

    [​IMG]
    "No! I take what I desire! I am the living Lord of the Sith! This is not the truth and it is not my destiny! I forge my own way, I walk a new path, and if you will not serve me, be gone!"
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I like the idea of a Dark Jedi being a Force user who just does not give a **** whether he/she is using the Force for dark purposes or not as long as he/she benefits from it, whereas a Sith is actually part of a group.

    I think the Sith are more power-hungry as well.
     
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  6. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011

    In a way, yes.

    "A Dark Jedi, on the other hand, has much smaller ambitions. He—or she—thinks only of himself. He acts alone. The ultimate goal is not galactic conquest, but personal wealth and importance. Like a common thug or criminal, he revels in cruelty and selfishness. He preys upon the weak and vulnerable, spreading misery and suffering wherever he goes."
    ---Jedi Master Obba
     
  7. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I might agree if the "Dark Jedi" archetype wasn't more or less completely subsumed after the prequels by the Sith. Given that the Sith code is a reaction to the Jedi code and their existence is more or less defined by philosophical opposition to the Jedi, they've definitely filled that narrative niche. I would agree that categorically "Dark Jedi" might be slightly larger than "Sith" but from a narrative perspective at this point those that don't fall under "Sith" largely aren't of interest to writers and aren't going to be central antagonists.

    For instance, if Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2 were written now the seven Dark Jedi would be seven Sith without a doubt.
     
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I don't know- the Nightsisters of Dathomir are rather clearly Not Sith in TCW- yet they can still be called "Dark Jedi" using Chee's definition.
     
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  9. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    [​IMG]

    non-existence != inherent impossibility.

    Also, "the Sith have been exinct for a millenium" implies that not just any Jedi can become a Sith. In fact, Ki-adi was implying that Maul, who was known to be a darksider trained in the Jedi arts, isn't a Sith.
     
  10. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    May 23, 2005
    Back when writing HttE, there was nothing about the Sith. Dark Jedi was the term used in the WEG RPG. Zahn wanted to make the Noghri the Sith, to explain Vader's title of Dark Lord of the Sith, but Lucas said no on that. So early on, Sith was not correlated with the Dark Force users, that came later.
     
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  11. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Wasn't Lumiya referred to as "Dark Lady of the Sith" in Marvel SW?
     
  12. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    yes
     
  13. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    Still not sure exactly where people would've ever been confused between Dark Jedi and Sith. Zahn unknowingly made sure that'd never happen by coining the term Dark Jedi from the very start, and thereafter whenever a Dark Side Force User popped up it was made clear whether or not he/she was a Sith.
     
  14. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 16, 2007
    Srsly don't get what the issue is here. The movies suggest the existence of non-Sith darksiders with the Jedi's reaction to Maul, pre-1999 Palpatine, and arguably Dooku at the end of AOTC, but at the same time all four darksiders who appear in the movies are clearly stated to the audience to be Sith. So we know what the movie characters are, and we also know that there can be other types of darksiders that don't appear in the movies. Who is getting confused over what, and how is it the EU's fault?
     
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  15. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    This thread is confusing me.
     
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  16. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    I didn't mean to say that it's any source's fault as much as I was saying that the meanings have evolved over the years.
     
  17. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado Jedi Knight star 1

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    Oct 24, 2013
    I'd have liked to see the writers try to worm out of that one after TPM.
     
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  18. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    I think GL said no because the Rule of Two was in effect during the movies. However, I guess the EU could have retconned the Rule of Two into only being about Sith Lords.
     
  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Hence Dooku's training of Ventress (but not in the "Sith Arts").
     
  20. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 25, 2000
    No. She was referred to as "the new Dark Lord" but there was no indication of what.
     
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  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Good point- I think the Talk page for her on Wookieepedia attributes Star Wars Gamer as the source to use "Dark Lady of the Sith" for her (the Nagai seem to refer to her as just "Dark Lady" in Marvel).
     
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  22. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    When/where?

    Edit: ignore this I was to fast to post, did not read all the comments
     
  23. DarthSanctimonious

    DarthSanctimonious Jedi Knight star 3

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    Sep 18, 2006
    As much as I agree with the general sentiment, I am loathe to use DE as a reason for anything.
     
  24. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 19, 2013
    A Dark Jedi is a Jedi who has embraced the Dark Side of the Force. A Sith, can either be: 1) The Species called Sith. They were originally called 'The Lord of the Sith' meaning that they made the Sith their servants. or 2) The Sith we see in the OT and PT.
     
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  25. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    [​IMG]

    At least back then, they knew to end stories on an optimistic note, and only to kill off characters no one cared about (amirite?). I'm not sure what's worse: that they killed Jacen, or that fans show more grief about it than his parents and the sister that killed him?
     
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