Dark Jedi and Sith

Just an aside frm the ROTS novel on the difference-for Jedi, anyhow-between a Dark Jedi and a Sith:

Anakin associates Assaj Ventress & her use of the dark side with heat; with Dooku, he feels an icy coldness.

I took this to mean, basically, the Dark Jedi are literally roasting in their emotions, utterly consumed by them; Sith have a certain distance from their emotions, an icy distance.

For example, all Assaj cares about is killing Jedi and removing them from the galaxy; Dooku has much larger plans.

 

dark Jedi seem to concentrate on destriction only , Sith want to destroy and that create

 

"The power of the Sith far outstrips that of any Dark Jedi."
-Darth Tyranus, Sith Apprentice

The difference between a Dark Jedi and a Sith Lord is control. A Dark Jedi is governed by their fear, their anger, and their hate. At the end of RotS, Lord Vader had only begun his training, and it showed Pathetic.

With time & training, a Sith Lord learns that fear, anger, and hate are pathways to vast power, but only through control can that power be tapped & harnessed. A Dark Jedi seeks only the supposed freedom that comes from tapping into the dark side. But freedom of that kind is an illusion.

To be a mere Dark Jedi means to be a slave to hate, a slave to anger & aggression, a slave to fear. To be a Sith Lord is to master fear, anger, and hate and make them your allies. That requires discipline that only the Dark Lords of the Sith have mastered as a result of millenia of study into the nature of the dark side.

 

I think we must be very careful here when we discuss the differnece between the two. I think that we must define the terms we are using as well. The term Dark Jedi should only refer to those who were once Jedi adhered to the teachings and the code then for somereason decided to use different means to accomplish goals like using emotion based responses. Where as a Sith is the culmination of training froma Sith Lord in their ways of use in the force and its lore. If the person being discussed does not fall into one of this categories then they should be called something else. Just becasue someone can use the force does not earn them the title Jedi, we see evidence of this in Return of the Jedi when Luke declares himself a Jedi the look on Yoda's face is like umm no. If the force user has not been trained in the ways of the Jedi then he/she is just a force user or dark side force user this all. Anakin when he killed the Tuskens and again when he aided Palpatine was a dark jedi not a sith.

The second part in more depth even this is wrong if you are dark then you are no longer a jedi, you have turned your back on their ways, you have deicded not to embrace the training. You would be a dark side devotee or user thats all, so I think we should as fans find a way to determine the name we will call these people these ones who are not Jedi or Sith.

 

That makes Anakin in the ROTS still a Dark Jedi, cos he can`t control his anger in any way. Palpatine or Dooku weren`t blinded by theire emotions, but they could call them and use them in the fight. Anakin was just consumed by his feelings.

 

Yes, but after Windu's death, he's learning under a master which makes him a Sith apprentice, no longer a Dark Jedi. Still, it's mostly a matter or subjectivity. Interesting to talk about though. I was always fascinated by the EU story of the Dark Jedi linked with the cave on Dagobah.

 

I think people are getting to focused on what is what, instead of looking into the meaning of what is being said. For example as I stated really to be a "DARK JEDI" is an oxymoron, you cannot be dark and a jedi at the same time, this would defeat the purpose of being one or the other, Jedi is not a generic term given to those who use the force it is a doctorine a way of life and teachings on the force, there is no in between, there are no partial jedi, if you decide to no longer follow the ways of the jedi then you are not a jedi as seen in AOTC when Obi Wan clearly tells Anakin that he will be expelled from the Jedi order, becuase he is no longer following the jedi code.

 

I mean Dark Jedi is not a Jedi anymore, but... even if it`s an oxymoron, you can`t still cal him a Sith, not until he has trained with a real Sith Lord.

 

Correct but that still is not what I said he would then be reffered to as something else all together, not being a Jedi or a Sith I would think that he might be a dark force user or a Devotee to the dark side is you infact believe in a dark side. The title Jedi belongs only to those who follow study and believe int eh jedi ways, same as the Sith, if you do not fall in these guidelines then Jedi or Sith should not be mentioned in the title given.

 

Personally, I've never read any EU material whatsoever, but obviously the definitions vary. Dark Jedi are sometimes depicted as a Sith rank, and other times they're Jedi who have left the ranks to follow their own path, but they use their powers in dark ways from that point on. In my opinion, it's the second of the two.

 

You have to remember that the Sith weren't always evil. The Sith, who hailed from the planet Korriban were force sensitive humans/humanoids who lived peacefully without any knowledge of the force. The first "Sith" weren't known as Sith. They were dark Jedi. Jedi who rebelled against the order. The first dark Jedi discovered the dark side and was amazed by it's nature. Once the council found out they kicked him out of the order, but before they could he had already shared his newfound knowledge with other Jedi who later joined him. The dark Jedi felt betrayed by the Order and decided to take it over. They were defeated of course and sent into exile. They floated around the galaxy until they came across Korriban. Korriban obviously served their needs well. The Sith viewed the dark Jedi as gods due to thier powers. Being force sensitive, the Dark Jedi interbred with the Sith and eventually they took the Sith name as thier own, as it gave them an identity apart from the Jedi. So in all actuality, this day and time, The Sith and Dark Jedi are basically the same.

 

No the forst of the Sith were jedi however they became obsessed with the more darker abilities of the force, this however did not make them a Dark Jedi.

 

I mean the were interesting in exploring all aspects of the Force, not only Ligjt Side ( as the Jedi do), ot the Dark Side ( as the Dark Jedi do). They were trying to use the whole Force, to use both intellect and emotions.

 

The term that should be used when talking about a Jedi who has fallen off the path of the Jedi is a Rogue Jedi. This would mean one that is going against the teachings of the Jedi, the term dark should not be used when describing a Jedi, and this would mean he is no longer a Jedi since Jedi are followers of the light. Evidence of this term can be seen in Shatterpoint on page 186 Mace uses this term, the manner in which he uses it leads me to think that it is the term most commonly used for the instances we are talking about.

From the Private Journals of Mace Windu
Excerpt: ?I did not come here to apprehend or kill a rogue Jedi, or even to judge one.?

This leads me to the conclusion that in the term rogue Jedi is applied to those who step outside the bounds of the Jedi Code. Now their actions may be dark yes, they may be evil yes, however the term dark Jedi does not apply, it simply does not exist, that is like saying a Jedi Sith Lord, you can see how it does not mesh. How the two conflict, this is the same conflict when saying dark Jedi. It is all on how we approach the situation I suppose, but the path of the Jedi is that of the force, to follow its will and be intone with the force let it flow into you, the path of the Sith is different than this, the path a Rogue Jedi is different than this, his action his way of doing things do not align with that of the Jedi thus making him rogue, not dark. I am sure the term Dark Jedi has been used in the past by many authors and even fans, we must however move away from this. Once you stop following the ways of a Jedi you are no longer a Jedi and can face expulsion from the order as seen in AOTC as I mentioned earlier, Anakin was not acting as a Jedi should, thus making his actions outside of the accepted behaviors, these unorthodox methods drew attention to him, and Obi Wan had to bring him back down.

The Sith have their own teachings, their own lore, from what was finally given to us in ROTS I must admit that it seems they take a larger view of the force. They are not inhibited by the confines the Jedi are given, thus they can act more freely, using both Jedi abilities and Sith abilities, I think this is what makes them so evil, and Palpatine made a good point about him being a Sith since when is against the law to follow your chosen religion or something along those terms I apologize for not having the correct quote. So if Palpatine all the sudden decides he no longer wants to take over the Galaxy and exert his dominion over the known worlds and kill all the Jedi is he considered a Good Sith, or a Light Sith? I think not.

I hope that this helps with my point of view and allows others to see it and accept it as well. Until then May the Force be with us.

 

thank you. Now this really has sense. hmm... I just started thinking, why the Jedi consider Sith so evil... Cos if you think of it, a dark or rouge Jedi can be much more dangerous - I know he`s not trained in the Sith way, but his using anger and not controlling it

 

Sith are definatly more dangerous than Rogue Jedi they now how to use their anger and hatred. So thier ties with the Dark side would be much stronger.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

Yeah, they know how to use it and when to use it. The Rouge Jedi can`t control it so those emotion goes easily free even when they are not planning to use it - and that`s make them so dangerous.

 

It's really hard to give a clear definition without diving deeply into the EU. While we allow EU to be a part of debate in this Forum ... we don't want it to get out of hand.

Another thing that I believe separates Dark/Rogue Jedi from Sith are motives. The Sith clearly have motives for themselves, and their emotions control that. Dark/Rogue Jedi have different motives, but still they are controlled by their emotions as well. So maybe it's not a matter of emotions as much as it's a matter of motives and choices.

 

I can see your point or atleast the dirction you are wanting to go with this. However, consider this; motives are not what seperate Rogue Jedi from Sith, it is the training or the lack thereof, there can be hundreds of Rogue Jedi at any given time, but there can only be two Sith, as provided by the movies. Emotions are not part of the equation, Emotions cannot replace training in the Sith arts, cannot replace having the title Darth before your Sith name, emotions are a side item a thing to consider before doing something. The only thing that seperates the two is training and the manner in which they were trained, are they self taught, trained by the Jedi but no longer agree with the direction the order is going, or are they part of the vicious cycle of Sith Lords? This and only this is the decding factor on what they are considered.

 

I agree with you. but that means also, the Sith are all exptinct after the death of Sidious and Vader...

 

I would assume based on the saga that yes it would be over, since technically Anakin's destiny was to bring balance back to the force. The cycle would stop there, the Sith would be no more, possibly like we saw in TPM Ki Adi Mundi "the Sith have been extinct for a Millennium." Perhaps the Sith were to be destroyed perhaps that was part of the prophecy, however that does not mean they cannot return, if for some reason a force user or rogue jedi came across a holocron and it contained teachings of a Sith Lord then perhaps then the cycle could be started over again. The issue you bring up is correct it is done they are done, it would have been helpful if we could have heard the full prophecy, the actual text this would have been helpful.

 

Thats why I think that EU after episode 6 is pointless. One of the main themes of the Saga is that Anakin destroys the Sith so having rogue Jedi which is like undeveloped sith is kinda making the Prophecy pointless.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

Sith: Sith are individuals who don't follow the teachings of the Jedi. Instead they have their own teachings, history, and rules to go by.

Dark Jedi: A Dark Jedi is evil, but yet they aren't a Sith. They don't follow the rules of the Jedi, but yet they don't follow the Sith teachings as well however they are evil and would rather side with a Sith than a Jedi. Exar Kun was a Dark Jedi not a Sith.

 

However there are other stories out there to be told. It has taken awhile for the Eu to come into blossom but not it has its own continuity and is moving the stry away from the OT, this is a good thing we as fans need to get away from the OT and PT this allows the story while although different that what we saw go on, to live on, this will be more important now that the saga is over.

 

Where did you find that Exar is not a Sith Lord? If he isn`t, who is than???