Darth Bain, Rain, and Darth Rivan: How does it all fit?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Mastadge, Oct 11, 2001.

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  1. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 4, 1999
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    According to WotC, Darth Rivan is a man, and yet Darth Bane's apprentice is a girl? What happened?
  2. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

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    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Perhaps Rivan is the Dark Lord after Rain?
  3. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Well, apparently in the Wizards article the Sith War is mentioned in connection with Darth Rivan, but it was put in Timetales after Jedi vs. Sith because presumably Bane was the first to carry the title Darth...
  4. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah, it could very well be either Sith War. But I like the idea of Bane being the first "Darth", so perhaps Rivan is the 3rd "Darth".
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    The clue to the answer you seek is anchoring when Darth Rivan existed.

    We know that...
    "Darth Rivan was driven from Almas by the Jedi during the Sith Wars, and his dome-like home blasted into pieces."

    So, one would wonder why you think these so-called "Sith Wars" take place after Bane and/or Rain.

    It was so long ago that the entire planet has been terraformed by the kaluthin.

    EDIT: One thing is very clear - WotC says Sith Wars, not Sith War. This single letter may or may not have a rather large influence on things (whether you think the Sith Wars = the Sith War or not).
  6. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Hum... I hope Jedi vs. Sith will soon be released in TPB... I'm really feeling lost here...

    Okay, okay, move along...
  7. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Actually, Darth Rivan couldn't have been Bane's apprentice. The Sith Wars were the wars that occurred in the millennium before Jedi vs. Sith. The Sith were fighting each other more so than the Jedi, and were known as the Sith Wars.
  8. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Maybe Rain never becomes a Sith Lord, but dies while she is Bane's apprentice???
  9. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    This is made more confusing by the fact that in "Bane of the Sith" by KJA Bane does not have Rain with him anymore. He has only just made his rule of the two. And he is just now looking for an aprentice.

    JvS and "Bane of the Sith" contradic so harshly. That must be fixed first and foremost.
  10. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well, if he had Rain with him, it would have spoiled JVS's ending. Maybe everyone read it wrong. Maybe Rain was on that planet and he had to go there for her.
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

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    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Bubba...
    "The Sith Wars were the wars that occurred in the millennium before Jedi vs. Sith."

    Which item confirms that? That is, the source which explicitly uses "Sith Wars" as a title for these events.

    EDIT: I'm of the opinion that WotC most likely intended for the Sith Wars to be the same event as the Sith War, but had a minor typo. That's just based on my own idea of the time it takes to terraform a planet. However, with the introduction of the Sith Wars as a proper noun - capitalized - it has become something other than the Sith War. The Sith War is the Sith War. The Sith Wars is/are the Sith Wars. In any case, I think Darth Riven existed more than a millenia prior to ANH. Whether it is 4,000 years prior or 2,000 years really doesn't make a huge difference, other than the fact that now "Darth" exists as a Sith title prior to Bane. But, then, I've always been of the opinion that Darth is most likely a hold-over from the original red-skinned guys anyway.
  12. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    No Becca. :( Its just a mistake. Bane dosn't make the rule of the two until he goes into the trance inside Nadd's tomb and has all the things on him, according to "Bane of the Sith" and The Darkside Sorcebook.

    And then in JvS he already has the rule of the two on Ruusan. He already has an aprentice. And he flees Russan because he knows what Kaan is doing is stupid. All Force-users on Ruusan should have died when the thought bomb went off. Its just a big ole mistake. Ohh well.
  13. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 2, 1999
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    Yeah, well, what's one more mistake? There are tons already. :(
  14. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Where was "Bane of the Sith" printed ?
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

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  16. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Bah, living outside the States really sucks... Grrr...
  17. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    Sorry Xizor! Would it help if I told you Gamer ROCKS? :p

    Well, you'd probably have an easier time finding those Force Files or whatever that are spreading through Europe. I want! :(
  18. Anakin SkySolo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 1999
    star 4
    Fact Files. I want, too.
  19. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    WotC talked of the Sith Wars. Rivan may have existed in the decades BEFORE Bane...but wasn't Bane the first to use "Darth?"
  20. PrinceXizor Former TF.N Foreign Book Cover Staff

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    Wedge... I... grrr...

    Well, maybe I could get a hand more easily on those Fact files, but I doubt it, because if there's a bright center to the universe, I leave in the country that it's farthest from...
  21. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    from tpm novel"When it was believed all of the Sith were destroyed, he emerged from concealment. At first he worked alone, but he was growing old and he was the last of his kind. Eventually, he went out in search of an apprentice. Finding one, he trained him to be a Master in his turn, then to find his own apprentice, and so to carry on their work. But there would only be two at any one time. There would be no repetition of mistakes of the old order, no struggle between Siths warring for power within the cult. Their common enemy was the Jedi, not each other. It was for their war with the Jedi they must save themselves."


    Bane's apprentice is a man in the novel itself.
  22. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    Well, perhaps Rain dies soon after JVS. But more likely, at the time the novel was written, no one had written about Bane's apprentice, and I guess it was just assumed the apprentice was male.
  23. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Terry Brooks wrote about bane's apprentice, that quote is from TPM novel it's self.
  24. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

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    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    It's so sexist, that it was assumed that all Sith were male. :p
  25. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Rain probably was killed later on, and bane grew old, and he made rivan his new apprentice, the man mentioned in that above quote.

    But it wasn't sexist considering the fact that either bane invented the character for himself, as his bit of the EU. Or it's a character that lucas created as backhistory, and gave brooks notes on.

    Either way it's not assumption it was the original story written down.
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