Darth Bane: the enigma

Me, help? Kinda futile really. My only experince with Bane comes from his mention in the TPM novel, and JvS 1-4. You two have a lot more source to help you with. Which means all I can really do is react to what you've posted.

Ok, how about this reaction. Based on what I've seen on the forum, Darth becomes short hand for Dark Lord of the Sith. All Sith Lords post Bane, whom we've meet so far, have taken Darth as a title. Something again to saying Sir Winston when refering to someone who has been knighted in this world. We realize they are being refered to by their title as well as their first name.

Based on what I've seen between you and Valiento, no one before Bane took the name Darth. The last Dark Lod of the Sith I know of prior to JvS is Exar Kun, and I know he was not Darth Kun. So we must assume Bane took this title for several possible reasons. First, he wanted to distinguish himself from the other Sith. If every Sith is going around like the Jedi being Lord so and so, the question is who really cares. While you may know who goes with that name, when not in person one who would be just learning the various Sith Lords really doesn't have a way of distinguishing just by title and name. However, Darth is very different, so one can say, yes, I can distinguish this Sith Lord from all the others who just use Lord as their title.

The second reason stems from what has been said about Bane not completing his training. Without it's completion, he has no right to call himself a Dark Lord of the Sith. Even if he were to complete it without the aide of his master, know one would know he had done so. Thusly, whether he completes his training before the events of JvS or not, if Bane wishes to take the title without anyone telling him he has no right to call himself a Sith Lord, all he need do is come up with an ancronym and tell no one what it means. This can also be supported, and support, the third reason.

This reason being the whole first name issue. Let's say Bane never changed his last name and his first had been Zieg. So Zieg Bane proclaims himself a Sith Lord and takes his ancronym to support this proclaimation without anyone knowing it. Splendid. So now we have Darth Zieg Bane. Ah, but wait, folks are going to realize that Darth is a title. If there really bright, they'll be able to put two and two together and figure out what it means. If not, their going to ask. Can't have that. So maybe the whole name should be changed. Well, can reason that Zieg Bane was a Sith failure. But Darth Bane, ah, perhaps a new start as Darth Bane. And if anyone asks why Darth, tell em the name shall strike fear into the hearts of all who hear it. Which briongs us to the fourth reason.

Fear. Reason number four and the support of reason number three. To see to it that Darth becomes synonymous with fear, Bane would have to give folks a reason to fear it. so he goes on a killing spree, making sure folks know it's Darth Bane doing the killing. While the name Darth Bane as a whole becomes synonymous with fear, both parts seperately remind folks just who it is they should fear. They hear just Darth or Bane and and instantly think "No, please, not Darth Bane. He's a nightmare, a nightmare." And now we get to reason number five.

A pupil. We can assume Bane plans to have his own pupil or pupils some day. Perhaps he shall spilt from the main branch of the Sith, froming his own branch that even the rest shall grow to fear. And so we can assume that he may well plan to award them with the title of Darth, perhaps even suggesting they change their name to something that can be greatly feared. The pupils learn what Darth truely means while at the same time, the rest of the Sith believe Bane is such a control freak over his own branch that he forces his students to take his first name as their own.

Naturally, you two know more than I do with what you have. This is merely my suggestion as to the whole Darth thing.

 

Hey, that's my chair! Ok, if I'm theorizing, maybe I need a better chair. One I can turn around and sit in backwards. Always good for cranking out theories.

 

Well all, I'm listed as 4:49 am EST and have been up since about 8:00 am on Saturday. Best shut down and stop burning the ole midnight oil. Catch the thread later on, as in in the pm over here. Then I'll maybe start with my theories again. Until we meet again.

 

Yeah, you need one of those stiff-backed, big chairs that politicians use. I want to be the first one to call your old chair. Hah, i win!

Now, venturing away from the comfort of my new chair, i would like to say a few things. First of all : YES !!! Someone else besides me knows about the acronym, <exhales> i was beginning to doubt myself.

Also, i too have not actually read JvS or Bane of the Sith (not being a big comic fan and not on the Gamer subscribe list), but i want to say that whether or not Bane changed his name, whether or not Maul changed his name, we already have examples of name change in the new age Sith : Palpatine changed his name to Darth Sidious. Whilst Sidious might be a necessary alias, i don't see a reason for him changing his first name to Darth. After all, the Sith are not exactly very fuzzy and warm toward one another. Many Sith, including ancient and recent, have worried about their own apprentices (who have been known to even raise in at least one case) turning on them. So i doubt that Palps was planning to honour a 1,000 year old dead 'coward' by taking his name. Anakin Skywalker changed his name to Darth Vader. Coincidence? I think not.

We know that Palps did follow the institution and traditions of Bane's order to some extent. He kept the restrictive "only 2" rule, for instance. All the members of the order (i'm not talking about Lumiya or Flint or the newbies) as seen in the movies have called themselves Darth something. 3 should be enough of a pattern to signify a title.

Giving partial training to a select few to create Dark Jedi of a low level in order to spread chaos on the Jedi would probably have been accepted by Bane's order. Just as long as Palps didn't teach the Dark Jedi how to control and harness their anger, then he could have gotten away without actually breaking any rules. Doesn't mean they can't pick it up on their own and become Sith level (like Jerec just about was) and even claiming Sith titles if the other Sith were dead. So in Lumiya's case, Palps and Vader may have given her enough training to become a powerful Dark Jedi. Then Vader directed her to some additional sources. Just because she doesn't start out as a Darth, doesn't mean she couldn't develop enough power and learn enough info to become a Sith and claim a Darth title in the future.

I think even Valiento would agree with me that there certainly isn't enough material out on Lumiya as there should be. She's such a waste of a good character. Damn the authors for not using other author's characters!!!

 

As I've already stated, darth Maul was darth before he was given his Dark Lord of the sith ranking. As seen in darth maul journal.

For it it to mean Dark lord of the sith, it would me he got knighted twice, which would be rather pointless, and redundant. Especially, when sidious/palpatine says that Maul is not a dark lord of the sith, until he knights him later.

Lord Kaan was a Dark Lord of the sith, according too several sources. the Rouge Jedi, before him was also a Dark Lord of the sith.

The DARk Lord of the SiTH, theory is a fanmade theory, and has not any basis in official literature(no were does it say that). To say that's what it means goes in the realm of fanfic ideas, and are not valid in any discussion. Until someone proves otherwise, and gives me an official source for this meaning, the it should be moot and left out of the conversation.

Secondly, Lucas official stated once that Darth translates out to "Dark"(or so he wanted it to mean that), nothing else. (Entertainment tonight) Though when he said it he was BSing about the star wars universe for ratings purposes I guess.(He said it meant Dark, but was translated from dutch, wich obviosly can't be true) but that's as close to an official meaning as to what darth means as your going to get.

In vader's case it meant Dark Father. So I will concede that much that darth bane was calling himself Dark Bane.

Secondly remember most sith with darth in the title also have the title Dark lord of the sith following there name, as well.

Lumiya doesn't follow the darth tradition, and to speculate that she ever will, borders on fanfic. Unless it's written down, then we can't believe she's less than adequate. From gamer 5, we know she had what the old sith had plus adding even more skills. She already has the Dark Lord/lady of the sith title, Yet she chose(or vader chose not to pass the tradition down upon her to better hide the fact she was his dark lady of the sith.) not to have darth in front of her name. She is still a dark lord of the sith. Yet she doesn't go around calling herself Dark Lumiya. Offically she is just Dark Lady Lumiya, dark lady of the sith.

 

Wow, you feel strongly about this. But with so little stories actually defining Lumiya, i'd say let's wait till we see her in modern times (NJO). Because we probably will and that's fan speculation.

 

The Sith are a cult.

You know how some people change their name when they join a cult?Well the Sith do the same. That's why Anakin changed his name to Darth Vader.I suppose it signifies the shedding of his old life,and the embracing of his new life.

-Rama Dama Ding Dong Matt

 

Ok, I'm back. And I want my easy chair back Matt.

 

That's rama dama ding dong Matt to you.

 

I think Darth may be a title. But perhaps Darth and Dark Lord of the Sith signify two different things. Perhaps "Darth" has more to do with the rule of two. Darth Bane is the first, and to stroke his ego, he gives his title to his apprentice. As long as there are two Sith, the title Darth is given to the. They gain the title Dark Lord of the Sith when they complete their training. Therefore, when Vader trained Lumiya, there were more than 2 Sith being trained, and the title Darth could not pass to her. Perhaps it is more of a family lineage of speaking, rather than a title of power.

 

I'll make it ding dong if you don't get out of my easy chair.

As for Darth having to do with the rule of two, no, don't think so. Look at JvS. If Darth had to do with the rule of two, Bane would not be called Darth Bane in this series as there were more than two Sith here.

 

Give you back you chair.uhm...no.

*proceeds to open up a new snicker crunch bar*

I like this chair.

 

What I'm saying is that perhaps Bane started it. What if Darth Bane was just his name. Then, when he enacted the rule of two, he used his name for a title of his apprentice, who used it for his apprentice, and so on. What started out as a name could've eventually turned into a title by thousands of years of Sith tradition.

 

CHAIR THIEF DING DONG!!!!!!

As for what you're saying Skawookie, I think I get your drift. And I think part of the reasons I gave sound like what you're saying.

 

Uh oh, i think i see where Knight is going with this. Matt, you'd better start running 'cause soon Knight's going to start singing "Ding dong, the chair theif's dead! Which chair theif ? Matt the theif. Ding dong, the chair theif is dead."

Hmmm, i think i better start running too, i put in an early claim for it.

<cut to shot of me running in a great hero-style masculine way, slow-mo, as the building behind me blows sky-high>



Do we all more or less agree that Darth is a title used within Darth Bane's secret order, regardless of it's origins ?

 

Lol, too funny. He's not dead. Maybe I'll just dump my ice cream on his head.

 

Ohhhh, what sort of icecream ? I might even stop running for some chocky icecream.

<Shwartzenegger-version of me stops, sniffs the air and says "me like icecream" then runs back into the burning building.>

 

Afriad all it is is vanilla. But it's topped with peanut butter, chocolate fudge, and cookies and cream shells.

 

Vanilla ? oh well, i'm already back, so you might as well start on me. If all the icecream is gone by the time Matt gets back here as well, it's his loss

 

Icecream with waffles.......
]
*homer simpson deool*

 

This has gotten out of hand...

 

Hey ! I just left for a minute to get a hot milo to have with my icecream, then i found you here trying to take both it and the left-over waffles ! Do you want me to call back in my Schwartzenegger-me?

 

Out of hand ? You want to see out of hand ? You can't handle out of hand !!
If you still want to see out of hand after that rousing Jack Nicholson scene, then head on over to the home of Moffel. It's probably in Matt's signature.

 

Hey, you and Valiento were the ones handling the bulk of the Bane enigma conversation. We touched it some, and Valiento did return for some guidance. But without the two of you around, well we needed to amuse ourselves, didn't we? I'd say we're doing a good job of it.

Ok, pass the Pringles. Anyone mind if I put the movie M*A*S*H on. Wanna see the shower test again. Maybe Painless is watching it. Wasn't paying attention earlier.

 

Hmm... that's true, i just work here. I don't mind if you put on M*A*S*H, after all i now have a new seat that is far superior to your old seat. It was once a pool toy, but that was only the first chapter in it's saga. Indeed, every chair must have a first usage, every generation must have a legendary recliner.

Mine is ..... drum roll..... C-3PO !!! An air-inflated chair made to look like the Golden One. !! hahahahaha.. i shall laugh and watch both M*A*S*H and the Bane battle from the all-mighty comfort of my C-3PO chair. (Sadly it's companion, the grand R2-D2 chair leaned back too far and sprung a hole. It's memory shall live on.)