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Darth Maul lead villian in the Prequels?????

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by KirkMaul, Mar 28, 2004.

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  1. rpeugh

    rpeugh Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    >>>>>>>Once again, as Kirk Maul pointed out, this thread is purely speculative, its not to be taken seriously or made to fit in with the current plot of the PT. Its a discussion on what could have been! <<<<<<<<<<<<

    I can respect that, but please look at the yellow writing at the bottom of this screen. Anyway, THe bottom line is that because the story of the PT is inherently complex, it NEEDS more than one apprentice for Darth Sidious. Otherwise, the story just cant work.
     
  2. Otis_Frampton

    Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2001
    I'll agree there is potential for a great story for the PT. But Lucas has gone off on too many tangents from what the story should be about.

    Funny stuff.

    What "should" the story be about, exactly?

    -Otis
     
  3. Ghost_Jedi

    Ghost_Jedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2003
    I just want to say good points brought up by MatthewZ & rpeugh. I just want to add a few points to the points you already brought up.

    1) maul represents vader's anger
    dooku represents vader's cunning and knowledge of the force
    grievous represents vader's mechanical side...


    Also lets look at Vader from what we first saw in anh. He was feared by not only the characters of the movie, but also the audience. His entrance onto Leia's ship amongst the smoke, awesome. He was what evil is. It is only later we learn that Vader used to Anakin, and was Luke's father. But try to think of Vader in terms of ANH, and it is the same arc type as Maul.
    As Matthew beat me to, Dooku is also a fallen Jedi. But what is truely scary is that he was a Jedi much longer than Anakin is/will be a Jedi. He is so respected for his long tenure as a Jedi, that the JC does not suspect Dooku capable of hiring an assassain, let alone to falling to the darkside. This same lack of vision will cause thier downfall w/ a similiar blindness to Anakin.
    As for Grievous, I am non-spoiled, but from the very little I do know, I think he will be more machine, twisted evil than biological.

    In essence the pt villians are the sum of the parts of Vader.

    Also in the ot, GL gives a pure modern mythological romp, which we all love. W/ the pt, and his aging, he is looking to add Shakespeare to his myth. This can best be scene in Palpatine, who is ending to be the best villian in the Iago/Machavelli arc type since The Bard wrote.
     
  4. KirkMaul

    KirkMaul Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Thank you Grand, I was just trying to point out that Lucas is making it more complex than it really needs to be, its like he's making twist just to make them. I really don't need that, I like a complex story but one that has a theme that i actually care about. In less he links things up in EP3(as i stated before), this whole sith plot would seem like a waste of time. All i'm saying he's trying to incoporate too many things in not enough film time.

    As for earlier calls as being a prequel hater, I do appreciate the films for what they are, I just do not think of them as being on the same level of the OT in terms of story direction. As for the visuals argument, Lucas himself says he loves huge elaborate battles and other digital scenes like the podracing or gladiator arena; so let's not act like peter jackson is the only one "all about the visuals". Let's also remember that the LOTR story was already there, so all Jackson really had to do was add the visuals. Lucas on the other hand has the burden of coming up with the visuals and the story, which means he has alot more responsibility in the story department. And furthermore, I believe that if anything LOTR has been a lot more character driven than the prequels. I honestly cared more about frodo and his commrades fates much more than anakin, padme, and the rest of the jedi. (I read LOTR before i saw the movies, so I knew what was going to happen in the end and still I felt emotional ties to the characters in their perilous situations, as well as we all already know the fate of anakin and the galaxy and we are just seeing how this comes about, but I don't really feel as emotionally attached; this series was suppose to make me care about anakin and wonder why he became vader, at this point i really don't care.
     
  5. DarthLazious

    DarthLazious Jedi Youngling star 4

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    Jan 24, 2003
    I could see Maul as the leading villian for the Prequels but then agian I see Sidious as the main baddie of the whole Star Wars Saga.
     
  6. rpeugh

    rpeugh Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Well KirkMaul, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. But like I said, I just dont see how your story would work. So you dont have a Trade Federation or Seperatists. But some organizations like the Trade Federation and Commerce Guilds would need to exist. I mean, this IS a democracy. Whether you like it or not, The Republic IS a democracy, and in order for the Sith to take control of the Galaxy, they need to turn it into an Empire. Turning a democracy into an empire is not a simple thing to do. YOu must aritificcally manufacture a crisis such as a civil war or an economic depression, which exposes the flaws of democracy to the people. And artificially manufacturing that crisis involves a lot of complex political machinations. So the complexities of the story ARE needed, whether you like them or not. And GL had always intended to do the prequels this way, at least since 1982.
     
  7. GrandMasterJay

    GrandMasterJay Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2003
    I don't really have a problem with the idea of having the Trade Federation and other guilds in the midst of all the PT. I'm just disappointed with the way they were played out in the movies. IMO, Lucas makes them all look like retarded lackeys who don't have any intelligence whatsoever.

    On another front, Lucas gave us Dooku to be their leader, but why the hell did he wait until 3/4 into AOTC to finally reveal him? I thought that was very bad timing and poor story telling on Lucas' part.

    I liked Maul really well, but I could accept Dooku to be the lead villain for the PT. I just think the way he was developed doesn't fit in well with the story arc. Just another so-called "filler" character.

    If they somehow overhaul the TPM, I would like to see them incorporate Dooku to establish some continuity to his character. That would be acceptible to me.
     
  8. Otis_Frampton

    Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2001
    IMO, Lucas makes them all look like retarded lackeys who don't have any intelligence whatsoever.

    Yes, he does. It's intentional. They're meant to be portrayed that way. Palpatine is manipulating them, and he has a strong influence on the weak-minded.

    -Otis
     
  9. GrandMasterJay

    GrandMasterJay Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2003
    Very true, Otis. hahah
     
  10. KirkMaul

    KirkMaul Jedi Youngling

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    Mar 28, 2004
    I would have also accepted dooku, but like Grand said Lucas just really missed the mark on timing of introducing characters. Maul and Dooku were very promising characters, but they were treated like just teasers, hell he could have made less intriguing characters for that cause. I can't stand fillers
     
  11. SLAVE2

    SLAVE2 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2000
    but they were treated like just teasers

    They are teasers, for the ultimate Sith Apprentice Vader. Lucas said one of the themes in the prequels is Palpatine's quest to find the right apprentice, which is Vader who will contain attributes found in all the other villains. Lucas doesn't want a villian that is going to upstage Vader.
     
  12. rpeugh

    rpeugh Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Maul served his purpose as a murdering assassin. He is kinda the opposite of Darth Sidious in TPM, because he does all the physical dirty work while Palpatine sits back in the shadows manipulating everything and doing all the talking. So Maul doesnt need to have a bigger role than he does in the film. Im glad Maul didnt do much talking, because if he did, I think that would have taken away from his evilness. I view him kinda like the SW version of Jason Voorheess. Plus, I kinda have a problem with the design of Darth Maul. I think they tried too hard to make him look like an evil monster, and in doing so, they overdid it and made him look actually less scary. They just did too much. Yellow and red eyes, rotting teeth, horns, tatoos, (One of my very few gripes with TPM, and that is a very minor thing.) And if he had talked a lot, I think it just would have ended up making him seem even less scary. Atleast with the lack of dialogue, there is sort of a mystery about him which creates the potential for fear. When trying to make a villain look scary, sometimes less is more. I think he might have actually looked scarier if they had just given him normal eys, but make them look very blood -shot, and just simply make his teeth yellow without having them rot. Then they could add the horns and tatoos.

    When the fillmakers of IT were designing the look of Pennywise, they were originally going give him a large pointy chin different colored eyes, point teeth, and just make him look like a monster. But Tim Curry (the actor who played Pennywise), had done a lot of films in which he was forced to wear a lot of torturous makeup, and he didnt want to go through it again. So he suggested that they make Pennywise's look be more subtle, and not so monsterous. He suggested that he just look like an ordinary clown with subtle editions like bloodshot eyes and yellow teeth. This actually made him look MORE scary, and it was actually appropriate for the story. Pennywise's whole reason for taking the shape of a clown is that it would make him a bait for children so that he could then eat them. It also created a pretty chilling cognitive dissonance. The designers should have taken this same strategy to the design of Darth Maul.
     
  13. GrandMasterJay

    GrandMasterJay Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2003
    I'll have to disagree with you on that issue bud. I thought Maul was one the coolest and most original characters in the SW Saga. I thought they nailed the look down and made his personality to be what the movie was intentionally trying to convey, "a menace."

    Cudos to whoever really came up with the idea of the double-bladed light saber. That just made Maul that much more interesting.

    I just wished Maul was actually portrayed more as an assassin in the movie. I thought it would have been better, had Sidious used Maul to kill off certain political adversaries of Palpatine, to clear the path for his ascension as Chancellor of the Republic. And possibly the deaths of the senators or previous chancellor, could be painted up to make it look like the Jedi were responsible for the crimes. At the same time, this would have allowed Lucas the freedom of developing the key figures that formed the Rebel Alliance instead of just throwing their characters in for cameo appearances. To me, this would have made Maul's character more significant to the story as his actions resulted in the beginning of the end for the Republic and the formation of rebel alliances.

    IMO, this would have been a more creative way to show how the Jedi lost favor with the Old Republic and what sparked the beginning of the Rebel Alliance. I know its not exactly how some of you other guys would have done it, but I personally would of liked to have seen that.
     
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  14. Lord_Imperius

    Lord_Imperius Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2004
    GrandMasterJay
    You have a well thought out idea going there, but my issue is that it requires the endings of TPM and AotC to be pretty much the same, with the bad guy dividing the opponents in two before being forced to escape.

    Personally, I love the idea of Count Dooku: a fallen Jedi Master secretly working for the Sith Lord but on the outside simply seeming to be a well meaning idealist with the interests of the common good at heart ,even though I felt that he could have been developed a bit better in AotC. Darth Maul suits Sidious? purposes in TPM and Dooku does in AotC. I, personally, kind of like the way that the Republic falls apart through treachery and deceit. I do have issues with the PT but the villains aren?t one of them.
     
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