Lit Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    The overall plot is on wiki now.

    I really dislike how they characterize Satine. Beside her firm belief of peace, as a politician she could do nothing in the crisis beside call for Jedi's help and that's exactly what Maul wanted her to do.

    Vizla is quite dumb as well, he didn't kill Maul brothers when he had the chance and imprisoned them together. Then he accepted the duel.

    Palpatine really got little reason to go by himself, he could expose his identity by doing this and Maul was very willing to serve him. He could use his former apprentice for his goal and let Dooku/Anakin kill him when the time is right.
  2. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Satine was refusing to resist in a way which invalidated her pacifism. But in the face of outright war, and the turning tide into violence... What can she do? Lead by example? She's in prison.

    Vizsla wanted to bring back the old ways... And so was honour bound to follow them. Maul trapped him.

    And Maul was lying - as Sidious correctly surmised, Maul was a rival for the title of Master. Going alone was required; the Rule of Two demands that the duel between Master and Apprentice involve none but them. That Maul involved his brother simply shows how weak he truly is.

    That's my take on everything.
    Iron_lord and Zorrixor like this.
  3. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Peace require power to ensure, she totally could use violence to defend her nation. Also she could run away rather than just let them come.

    Vizsla already betrayed Maul brothers and lied to his people, why not kill Maul directly?

    Maul was indeed very afraid of his master if you read the book, Sidious could totally use that.
    I'm strongly against the idea to let Sidious go fight Maul brothers, his style should be stay behind the stage to use others to work for him, especially both Anakin and Dooku hate Maul.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 21, 2013
  4. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 1
    As I understand the novel ends in a cliffhanger, with Sidious torturing Maul with Force Lightning. I'm assuming this coincides with the "Lawless" episode from the CW series. Will the series continue Maul's arc this season beyond this point?
    Why do you say he's weak? Do you mean in combat?

    I think you may have misinterpreted the situation. Maul has aspirations to the Sith Mastership, but he must have known he was a long way from rivalling Sidious. Maybe if he'd spent the past 12-13 years training instead of being an insane scavanger, he might have had a chance, but as it stands...
    There's also the fact that Sidious basically hunted them down. He initiated the confrontation, not Maul. In the Rule of Two tradition the Apprentice must challenge the Master when he thinks he's ready. The Master striking preemptively defeats the whole purpose of the Rule of Two.
    Of course, none of this matters since, as Sidious himself says, Maul was no longer his apprentice. This was not a duel in the Rule of Two tradition, it was Sidious disposing of a threat before the threat got out of control. So Maul was perfectly 'in the right' to use Savage's help. In fact, it would have been foolish not to do so.

    On a side-note, perhaps the reason Sidious didn't order/coerce Dooku or Anakin into killing Maul was that he didn't think either of them were capable of doing so.:)
    Last edited by Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken, Jan 22, 2013
  5. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

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    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    How does it benefit the Rule of Two if the Master is killed when teamed up on?
  6. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    That's always something I've found a bit ridiculous about Sith philosophy. It has this ingrained sense of almost-honor that feels distinctly Jedi-like, made even more so because it was set in place by a man hundreds of years dead. Petty squabbling is indeed what almost brought the Sith down, but that doesn't mean willingly offering your head on a platter when the time arises. Darth Plagueis makes note of that, musing that no Sith would ever be content with simply existing to set up their predecessor.

    Though I have not seen the most recent episodes, I agree it would reflect worse on Maul if he failed to use every possible asset he has available to his potential gain. He's not a noble kid out to prove himself, he's out to survive. I doubt Sidious himself disapproves; he's the ultimate opportunist, and is perfectly happy ignoring the Rule of Two, and only follows it when convenient to him. At this point, I don't get the impression that Maul really gives a crap about the Sith. He was snatched from the cradle and told to serve them, but beyond that, he owes no obligation to them. One of the things I actually like about Maul's portrayal in TCW is that they have him becoming a warlord, not a typical Sith. He doesn't have much reason at this point to care about strengthening the Rule of Two by engaging in a chivalrous duel.

    Of course, that's all assuming Sith philosophy makes even a bit of sense, which it so clearly doesn't :D
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jan 22, 2013
  7. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2012
    star 1
    It doesn't. Where did I imply that it does?

    I reiterate: Sidious vs Maul and Savage wasn't the traditional Banite duel for supremacy. Neither Maul nor Sidious were under the impression that it was. Sidious simply hunted Maul down to silence him, and Maul defended himself.

    You're making it sound like Maul wanted to become the Sith master and he and Savage purposely ambushed Sidious and ganged up on him instead of challenging him to a fair one like Banite tradition dictated. That's not the case. It was Sidious who confronted Maul. It was Sidious who was the aggresor. Maul simply defended himself. It was about survival. Why wouldn't he use every means at his disposal to ensure he comes out alive out of a confrontation that he didn't initiate?

    Also, you're faulting Maul for supposedly not following the Rule of Two, yet Sidious' killing of Plagueis wasn't exactly squeaky clean either. As Plagueis' himself muses, "precious few Sith had followed" the Rule of Two. I suppose that makes them all weak, Sidious and Plagueis included?
  8. _Catherine_ Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2007
    star 4
    Isn't this just an adaptation of a few episodes of TCW? Is it really that different from what happened on the show?
  9. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    Nowadays I've come to view the Rule of Two as something the apprentice is almost supposed to break.

    Through the Force, my chains are broken, and all that jazz...

    If you just follow the rules like a good little boy, you aren't ever going to master the dark side, so it's almost like an apprentice who's worth their salt is meant to think outside the box. Like Bane himself came to think of Zannah, an apprentice who just sits around waiting for the day their master grows old and grey isn't worthy of lordship, and it was only when Zannah broke the rules and challenged him that she proved she wasn't the loyal little teacher's pet that he had taken her for.

    Reverse psychology, basically.
    Last edited by Zorrixor, Jan 22, 2013
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  10. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Though there was some disagreement, I still maintain Bane tried, or at least was going to try, to weasel out of the Rule of Two himself. He was idealistic most of his life, but when it came time, he wasn't particularly comfortable with letting the next generation take over...
  11. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I don't see Sidious follow the Rule of Two well, he simply replaced his apprentice again and again for his plan.

    This could be a great opportunity to show his manipulation, stay behind the stage and use Anakin and Dooku's hate against Maul to let these 3 fight.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 22, 2013
  12. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    I agree. The challenge for the apprentice is to know when to break the rule.
  13. Darth Regis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    Does anyone on here play Star Wars Combine?
  14. Slowpokeking Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Ok I read it again, I don't understand why did Obi Wan refuse Anakin's help. His flight technique could work great there.
  15. Sudooku Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2014
    star 2
    Hi Cathy,

    you summed it up completely ;) I was so disappointed while and after reading this book. It is more written for children, I guess. This is a mere narration of what happened in the respective clone-wars-episodes.

    This bunch of pages is totally lacking any fantasy and sometimes it is odd in description. I can't figure out why Jason Fry can write stuff like that the droid-legs Mother Talzin gave to Maul after being rescued from Lotho Minor, would suit him as a Sith-Lord much better than his natural legs? I think Maul would disagree. For not only his natural legs were gone. Then there are some grave deviations from the movies: Fry writes that after Sidious did impale Savage with his two blades, Savage lay there in his now much to big armor. Instead you can clearly see in "Lawless", that Savage's armor disappears from his upper body together with Savages supersizement because his heavy plated armor is only some witchcraft of Talzin and the Nightsisters too. I guess Savage is laying in the throne-room with his Nightbrother's skirt and belt as Ventress has brought him to Talzin.

    Fry had so much ample space and freedom to fill in some details about the difficult life of the two brothers after Savage brought Maul home to Dathomir. Like they walked from planet to planet fleeing and plundering. He could include the raids to Moorjhone and Pleem's Nexus. He could carve out and mould the everyday life of the brothers in Mandalore when they were better off. He could give us information if Savage and Ventress did mate or not. Or if Savage mated somebody else instead. [face_love] What Maul did in his free time. Nothing of this happened. Instead you feel Fry's sympathy for Anakin, Satine and Kenobi. =((Nothing against this but while he is writing a book about Darth Maul he should delve more into his world than mainly to show Jedi in danger.
    Last edited by Sudooku, Sep 27, 2014
  16. Solent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2001
    star 2
    Rule of Two is not about honour, but that because of their own nature Sith will turn against each other. If there are more than 2, the weaker ones will ally against the strongest, and when they kill him/her, the Sith concept itself will be weakened. Thus, limiting it to master and pupil means the latter won´t be able to deal away with the former until s/he is equal/superior in power.

    Going by the opera scene, Palpatine was smart enough to imply he wouldn´t teach everything he knew to somebody who could easily surpass him in power, thus making the pupil need the master no longer. Of course, once he becomes Vader Anakin doesn´t want to learn everything anyway, so he miscalculated a bit there. Luckily for him after Mustafar Vader can no longer overpower Sidious by himself.
  17. jasonfry VIP

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    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 3
    Sorry it didn't work for you. Two points you might find helpful in assessing future Star Wars books, or any books that have to do with licensed properties:

    1) The writer can only write the book (s)he is contracted to write. Which in this case was an adaptation of the episodes, not the adventures of Maul and Savage.

    2) Publishing takes a lot longer than digital animation. The episodes were still being revised when the book had to be locked down. As is always the case.
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  18. Sudooku Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2014
    star 2
    Hi Jason,

    Thank you for your explaining answer. :) I wish that digital animation would not only be faster but also cheaper than publishing books about the subject. Then we would have much more Clone-Wars-Episodes to watch just like initially planned and we wouldn't deplore all that later cancelled arcs as I came to know in this forum. And you could have written much more then too in this book of yours.

    regards
    Sudooku
    Last edited by Sudooku, Sep 28, 2014