Full Series Darth Maul's Fate

Interesting thing in SOD #4, Black Sun and Pykes wanted Maul to deploy his fleet to aid and relieve them. Maul held back his true fleet which was not shown in that comic(plus he captured Grievious Droid army in issue #2, so thats droids and ships with other vehicles inside them. That also goes along with Rook Kast's comment, "all will be lost without you" remark when she restrained Maul from charging back into the maelstrom for his mother. The Pykes and Black Sun are under attack similuelstess, as their locastions are apparently under attack or they switched sides. The Pyke leader says " how could they know" which appears to imply their is a traitor within the Shadow Collective ranks, or Maul himself gave up their locations to get rid of them and keep his enemies armies busy for a bit and attention elsewhere.

 

I am sure Lord Maul still has some tricks in his bag.

 

I hope he does.

 

Maul is a powerful darksider, but I am not sure he has yet reached his full potential. Sidious, Vader and Dooku seemed to have a deeper understanding of it while to Maul it was only a weapon like his fancy lightsaber. It would be interesting to see him reach his apex, maybe in a final confrontation.

 

Actually, he did some impressive things such as this ;

 

Like I said, he is powerful.

 

I think you meant powers like Force lightning or Tutaminis right ? Since his Telekinetic powers are really good. I think that wouldn't be suitable for Darth Maul's power set,

1- He is more like a physical fighter, and martial artist type force user
2- Giving him extra force powers would make him too powerful, for example Dooku was powerful force user, but lacks physical abilities such as strength, same for Vader, he lacks high level speed. Maul has both strength and speed.

But of course I would like to see Maul using force lightning or his Mother Talzin's magics etc.

 

You said it yourself, he is more like a physical fighter, martial artist type force user. The force is just one more weapon in his arsenal. Vader and Dooku are more religiously minded, the dark side is more of a way of life for them, not just a weapon. They think of it more as of a god, a power that permeates the universe and reflects in it.

I'm not saying to turn Maul into a Gary Stu. He would have to become considerably more advanced with his force powers to be a credible threat to Vader or Sidious.

 

Vader no, Sidious yes.

 

Like Jedi Knight Fett said, Maul is a threat for Vader. Probably he would beat him in a lightsaber duel due to speed difference (since Vader has disadvantage on this because of his suit), the difference between their telekinetic power are still not too far, though Vader has better telekinetic power, but still I doubt that there is a big difference between them to make it a stomp for Vader's favor, it is not like the difference between an average Jedi Master's telekinesis and Vader's. As you said, Maul is powerful.

Maul is no different than Vader or Dooku on this matter, or even better since he only survived via using the dark side of the force. Which is very impressive, even Darth Sidious gave a credit for that accomplish.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/erkan12/blog/did-darth-maul-used-force-drain-for-survival/99887/

As for ''the Force quotes'', Maul did that too.

 

People seem to underestimate the advantage the armor provides. It is lightsaber proof and that means a smaller target zone. Maul would have to strike low if he wants to damage Vader. Another advantage Vader has is his skill in psychological manipulation. He would get into Maul's head and boy is there a lot of material to use against him. The only main advantage Maul seems to have is his speed since his double blade isn't very useful against one opponent.

It would be a heated battle and maybe Vader would take some damage, but I don't think they'd meet on equal grounds right now.

How do you think Vader survived?

Well, Maul still doesn't strike me as a very devoted darksider.

 

That isnt really true. Maul always displayed through out the CW series that he's a master military straightest and adept at manipulation of the minds of his prey and this continued into SOD. He's quite the intuitive thinker type as well as spectacular combatant. Maul is devoted to the darkside of force and the Sith way with an understanding the Jedi way(as he uses it to break Kenobi). By SOD out to rule the galaxy with his mother, Sidious' Sith order had to be eliminated as Sidious deemed him a rival to his Sith Order. That was one of the points the writers wanted anyway, that Maul was cerebral and not just a thug.

Both are to be commended for their outstanding and dark wills and also both were in top physical health, to Lucas a level of the physical was vital to a Jedi or Sith's overall strength of the force as it had to with mainly blood and body part percentages. Vader benefited due to aid of life support and being rebuilt professionally by medics and surgeons to keep him alive for the rest of his remaining years. Plus Sidious rushed there before even Vader fell as he had a premonition of the event so he had access to medical aid soon after being left there by Kenobi. Maul was cut in half and fell down a shalf that looked endless, he had to snap back quickly outve shock and regain his control inorder to guide and break his fall down the shaft, all it wouldve took was one smack against the sides to break his neck or crack open his head . He survived in the wild and alone without shelter or aid of his master or anything save for himself. He forged his own walking apparatus at some point using the force and will of mind and marooned on uninhabited planet of junk just eventually lost his sanity as he was there for 12 years.

Vader's vitals are exposed, the hard plate armor does not cover much, the upper chest/shoulder armor looks more designed to support the weight of the helmet rather than practical combat value. And the armor weighs a lot, this was touched upon in another thread. Maul could also slap on some plate armor and a body glove as access to armor is readily avaibale to Sith and Jedi but they often choose not wear any plus there isnt any known metals that can withstand a lightsaber's blade in canon . Maul maneuverability isnt hindered by his cybernetics like Vader is. Even if you Healthy Vader was unable to defeat Kenobi in ROTS while Maul successfully defeated Jinn(who had no equal cept for Yoda or Windu) and Kenobi(and Kenobi a few times ago and outwitted him). TCW( cyborg Maul) vs cyborg OT Vader, would surely win judging Vader from ESB and ROTJ they're fighting style is no where near on same level, Vader is outclassed. But its rather ridiculous unless you put them into stimulated objective match up like Marciano vs Ali. Reality is its whoever the writers/producers want to win at the end of the day.

Maul has the advantage of being a trained since childhood Sith apprentice, that kinda mental and physical hardening and discipline cant really be replicated by simply a converted Jedi.

 

Mhm, I think it is down to perception, which of the Sith would gain the upper hand. I like Maul a very great deal, he is my second favorite canon Sith, but I still think Vader is stronger overall. And I still don't believe Maul is that devoted to the dark side. He is quite clever and cerebral, true, but he seems to focus on wordly matters more.

What I am missing from your description though is Talzin. I thought in SOD it is explained that Maul survived due to her help? So both Maul and Vader had someone who helped them survive, even though they both would have died if not for their own burning hatred.

You're kinda comparing the movements of a cartoon character (well mostly) with a character from a many decades old movie. As you probably have noticed as well, the TCW characters can jump 20 meters in the air and show all kinds of improbable feats they don't show in the movies. Vader is stylized more like a tank and Maul like an acrobatic, but that doesn't give any of them an edge since both styles have their pros and cons. As for the movie fights, Maul leaves himself wide open several times - these fights are not meant to be taken completely literally, they are stilized. However, both were played by very experienced fighters (Bob Anderson or Ray Park) which should tell us something.

You still have no canon evidence that Vader's armor that heavy. He only wears about what an American football player wears and he is extemely buff. I don't think that "carrying" the armor poses any problems. The only thing I find likely is that he is less agile with it because it doesn't allow him to move as freely.

"Healthy Vader" is less powerful than suited Vader according to the upcoming "Lords of the Sith" novel. It was after his defeat that he perfected his use of the dark side. The fall taught him humility and discipline he didn't have as Anakin Skywalker.

 

I agree with Vorax, Darth Maul is clearly superior in terms of battle against Vader. But Vader's popularity always gives him the win against Maul if they are going to fight at any time, clearly you can't write a scenario where Vader loses to Maul, a vast and majority of the Star Wars fans like Vader and Vader is like special figure for the Star Wars universe, that is why Darth Maul is stronger than Darth Vader by feats, but Darth Vader would win only in any scenario because of the reason I've mentioned.

I don't know how can you possibly think this while Darth Maul managed to survive from being cut in half. I mean, that is something very very rare among force users.

 

That's not quite true. In the old EU, Vader showed very big feats that Maul couldn't ever hope to achieve. He was even described as moving faster than sight, which even to me sounds like a huge exaggeration. He casually uprooted trees or blized several people at once with Kinetite. So yea, it makes sense that people thought he was more powerful.

Now with the new canon it is less clear because the OT is atm more or less our only canon source about Vader, while Maul had a lot of time to shine in TCW and SOD.

I think it is his raw power and hatred that helped him survive. It doesn't necessarily mean he has a deep understanding of the force, more like an instinctive. A bit like Ezra, who can do impressive things when stressed but clearly has little understanding and control of the force. Of course Maul is far better trained than Ezra, but I am not sure his force powers are as refined as that of Dooku or Vader or Sidious.

 

Vader and Sidious would likely engage Maul together, so we wouldn't get a clear picture of who would dominate in 1v1 combat - just like we saw in SOD. If they actually did fight 1v1, I'm willing to bet it would be pretty even, but the writers would hand the fight to Vader for a number of reasons - mostly because of who he is, not what he's capable of.

As for surviving - both Vader and Maul would have been a threat to no one had they not been rescued. Sidious saved Vader and Talzin saved Maul - had they been left alone, Vader would have likely died and Maul would have remained insane and isolated on the junk planet. It took two stronger individuals to save both of them. Its Sidious and Talzin that maintained the most power.

 

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Why do you think they could engage Maul together? If Vader encounters Maul, it is probably far away from Coruscant. Sidious mostly sits on his ass on Coruscant, he is very unlikely to encounter any Jedi or Sith (except Vader of course).

And yes, Vader is supposed to be very powerful. He is the main baddy of the OT, after all.

It's true that they were weak and had to be rescued once ... but so did Sidious in ROTS. Maul and Vader both rose from the ashes, learned from their failures and became more powerful than ever before. A true Sith draws strength from hatred and conviction, the flesh is of secondary importance.

 

Of course that was an exaggeration, because if Vader is somewhat that fast he could be using that speed against Old Ben Kenobi in ANH, but according to novel ''Death Star'', Vader doesn't even have time to react to his storm troopers because if he did, Old Ben Kenobi could've killed him before he can react.

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And Old Ben Kenobi is slower than his prime TCW / RotS versions.

Darth Maul is faster than Darth Vader by a very big deal, I mean he even contended with Darth Sidious for a while, and Sidious is probably fastest force user in the canon universe.

 

Ah, so you count one EU source and discount another? That's one problem with the old EU, it is so riddled with contradiction. I would say we leave it out of this altogether.

Old Kenobi was played by an old and frail man in a time in which there was no CGI. I don't think it is fair to call him slow.

If you believe that Vader will be portrayed as exceptionally slow and cumbersome in the NEU, I think you will be in for a surprise.

Sidious, don't get me started on him. He is waaay overrated. The only fight he won in the movies was against redshirt Jedi, the same guys who got gunned down by droids on Geonosis. Mace Windu and an unarmed and literally handycapped Vader bested him and he only managed to fight Yoda to a draw. That's about it.

With fast you probably mean "so over the top that it is laughable". Ray Park in TPM was way better.

 

Darth_Pevra

How about Maul's fight against Mace Windu ? He was fast enough to compete with Mace, and he was beating Aayla Secura at the same time.

 

Maul put his Sith training to use throughout TCW and trained Opress as his Sith Apprentice and was loyal to his apprentice unlike Sidious was to his own apprentices. And he may be looking for a new apprentice again, despite the feigned offering to Tyranus to become his ally, the point remains he may indeed seek out a future apprentice even the The Son Mortis needed an apprentice in Tano and his true target, Anakin. As the galaxy in turmoil is rife for opportunity with many suitable candidates. With Sidious creating an order of the many by recruiting children of the force to be Sith trained dark jedi-like warriors is likely an aversion to the Rule of Bane. Maul could go to Moriband and learn from Bane himself and if he defeats Bane he takes his place as the next Sith Master. Would be interesting Maul being on Moriband learning from Bane's spirit for all these years rather like Exar Kun learning from Nadd. Probably wont happen but I think that is an interesting way to go and explain his absence from the Imperial invasion of Mandalore. Maul is like canons Darth Revan anyway.

 

I thought Bane's spirit was just an illusion since Sith can't become force ghosts?

But it would be cool to see Maul with a new apprentice/sidekick.

 

You really don't like the fact that the guy in your avatar takes orders from the guy in mine, do you?

 

Not really. I had no problem with it in the Tarkin novel, for instance. I actually found him pretty intriguing. But all to often, Palpatine is written as an idiot and/or lunatic and that guy doesn't make for a convincing Emperor. And no, people like Tarkin and Vader wouldn't serve someone like him.

He's another character that got messed up in the prequels, just like Yoda. Only the politician Palpatine was good in the prequels.

You know what kind of Palpatine I want to see? One who makes wise decisions, a great manager and politician who is respected by his servants and respects their powers and abilities in turn, and not some guy who is actually pretty stupid and just browbeats everyone into submission with his l33t powers.

Less GOT Joffrey, more evil Emperor.

 

A stupid Palpatine? Not sure I've ever experienced that one.