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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Darth Maul's real name

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    You may be right. My point is simply that Vader wouldn't have been surprised by Kenobi disappearing if happened to every Jedi (or even just every Jedi Master) he killed, which is what the early EU assumed to be the case.

    I'm saying nothing beyond that at all.

    I suppose we don't have to read his reaction as surprise and/or curiosity about WTF just happened. He could just be double checking there's no trap door, and maybe he does that every time he kills a vanished Jedi.
     
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  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Or showing contempt for Obi-Wan specifically, by stepping on his robes.

    In Legends, Vader saw a Jedi Master disappear and come back as a ghost after he killed them, shortly before Yavin:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Duel_on_Cophrigin_V

    so - in that context, it's necessary to explain Vader's act as less surprised. Maybe the only surprise was that Obi-Wan was able to do it - Vader believing him to be weak by Jedi standards "Your powers are weak, old man."
     
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  3. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Yeah. I really disliked the conclusion to that story at the time because, again, I think it went against the implications of ANH.

    "Vader believing him to be weak by Jedi standards "Your powers are weak, old man."

    Weak by Jedi standards or just weak next to his own mastery?

    "Your powers are weak(er than they used to be) old man" is not the only read.
     
  4. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Vader might not even believe his own words. It's just talking smack, using Sith smack talk to put Kenobi off-guard--Dun Moch.
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    A novel retelling of that scene, did dwell on Obi-Wan's age, lack of practice, etc. making him a weaker fighter than Vader last remembers, and Vader noticing that, and gloating over it.

    Death Star:

    He still had some skill, his old Master did, but he was out of practice. Vader could feel it through the Force.
    Obi-Wan twirled and blocked a slash, then wove a defensive pattern with his blade. The Force was still with the old Jedi; he was able to anticipate Vader's strikes and block or parry them. But after a quick exchange, Vader felt the energy shift in his favor. "Your powers are weak, old man."
     
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  6. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    True, good point. Considering how often I fall back on "You sense only a part of the Force, Darth" I should have remembered that.
     
  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012

    From the same ADF novelization:

    "You still have your skill, but your power fades. Prepare to meet the Force, Obi-Wan."
     
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  8. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    Yup, yup. Though I would still hesitate to assume Vader meant Obi-Wan was weak by Jedi standards, rather than simply by what he remembered of Obi-Wan's standards.
     
  9. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I don't doubt the sources cited here, but the problem feels to me is that Vader has learned nothing from Mustafar if he's still believing his own smack talk. Vader believed his smack talk "You underestimate my power" right before he got chopped up and dunked into the lava. He "felt" the battle shifting in his favor then and was completely wrong. Even if Vader "feels" it again on the Death Star, wouldn't he be a lot more cautious this time regardless?

    I guess Vader is just that "dumb" the way Sauron was just that "dumb" to not think Frodo would destroy his ring and not put up some armed guard on Mt. Doom. A staple of fiction, but people are getting tired of dumb villains--it's why Thrawn is so popular.

    But maybe I'm just thinking how I would think and not how Vader thinks. Honestly if I heard the guy who ruined my life was running around on the same space station I was, I'd send a whole squad of stormtroopers to shoot him down and toss in a few thermal detonators if they fail. Only after all that fails would I go in saber to saber. There's nothing to prove anymore--the point is to accomplish the goals (kill Kenobi) not try to prove yourself to some undefined audience. If Palpatine accuses me of being afraid I'd tell him to go hunt some Jedi (Yoda) himself.

    But then I'm the guy who keeps insisting that Voldemort should have shot Harry Potter down with a muggle weapon (like a gun) to win instead of the whole wand business that kept backfiring (horcruxes, power of love, etc). Worry about the image issues in front of your Death Eater followers later.
     
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