ST Darth Plagueis is Snoke? (Episode VIII & IX)

They have made statements that Plagueis is Sidious' Master. If Snoke was never Sidious' Master, then he was never Plagueis. That's the end of it. That fact is canon. They're not going to simply use the name Darth Plagueis and ignore everything that has been established about his history in canon. They'll just invent a new character that knows how to cheat death if that's the direction they want to go in.

Sidious can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, in whatever manner he views as effective when he is the Master. It doesn't matter in the slightest what his master (whoever they were) taught him. Sidious is an ego maniac who does what he feels like.

And they won't contradict or change the fact that Darth Plagueis was Sidious' Master. If they choose to make Snoke and Plagueis the same being, there is no need whatsoever to change that single fact.

 

DP

 

That would be redundant and unnecessary because if they decide it's better for the story for Snoke to be Plagueis and for Plagueis to be of an older generation of more war-minded Sith than Palpatine's generation they can and do not care about contradicting one paragraph out of the Tarkin Novel that was based on old EU every bit as much as TCW's Nightsisters, I guarantee you.

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS BASED ON THE OLD EU. LUCASFILM DECIDED TO MAKE IT CANON SO THEY DID. THEY ARE NOT CHANGING THAT FACT.

The night sister's are canon. That isn't changing either, even if you personally don't like or approve of it or think it's a good story decision.

Has it never occurred to you that Plagueis/Snoke could be more war-like (and honestly, nothing that I've seen from him seems all that different motivationally than Sidious since they both have constructed super weapons to use to destroy their enemies and rule by fear) because his beliefs have changed in the 35 years since the fall of the empire? Perhaps he simply abandoned the teachings of Bane's Sith Order. Though again, nothing we've seen in the movie indicates a radical departure from Sidious' rule and methods on the part of Snoke.

 

I clearly stated how Snoke's strategy was better.

Palpatine attacked either bases or fleets of the Rebel Alliance. When his death star was destructed he had nothing to show for it.

Snoke disrupted all galactic communications and severely cut the resistance off from the Republic, so in the end he actually had something to show.

Attrition, cutting off the enemy's resources, is far more effective than destroying enemy bases or attacking your enemy's troops head on.

 

The enemies are completely different. Snoke destroyed Hosnian Prime because that was the capital of the New Republic. There was no Republic for the Empire to destroy in the OT. Sidious had already disbanded that. His targets were the Rebel Alliance and he attempted to do exactly what Snoke did in destroying their base on the moon of Yavin. Just as Snoke tried to destroy the Resistance base in TFA. Both failed and Snoke is in the exact position that Sidious was in after ANH.

The Rebels had nothing to be cut off from. They were already cut off from the Republic BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST ANY LONGER. Snoke and Sidious are literally doing the exact same things.

 

The resistence base was not the in or around Hosnian Prime.

The Rebel Alliance was supplied by an alliance of rebelling systems...any one of which the Emperor could have targeted instead of targeting the Rebel Base.

 

Yeah, they were being supplied by Alderaan as has been established in Rebels. And he destroyed that planet. Made an example of them. Just as you're saying Snoke did.

As for the location of Hosnian Prime, did you not watch the movie? Starkiller Base destroyed the entire Hosnian System. Then it targeted the Resistance base for that same destruction. That was the entire point of the Resistance attacking it. It could target systems that weren't right next to each other.

 

There's a reason that the Resistance is so much smaller in TFA than the Rebel Alliance was in ROTJ.

That reason is Snoke's direction.

 

Starkiller base attacked one Republic System, the most important one. It attacked no military installation of the Resistance.

They weren't just being supplied by Alderaan, and the reason they destroyed Alderaan was because they thought it was the Rebel Base.

 

No it wasn't. Leia told Tarkin that the rebel base was on Dantooine and Tarkin didn't believe her. He targeted Alderaan to make an example out of it. You really need to check your facts before posting inaccurate statements.

The reason the Resistance is so much smaller than the Rebel Alliance in RotJ is because the New Republic didn't deem the FO a threat. Heck, a lot of members of the NR were in the pockets of the FO (same tactic that Sidious used in the PT...just as Snoke and the FO were doing). Leia had to build the Resistance in complete secrecy from both the New Republic and FO.

And Starkiller base did target the ONLY military installation of the Resistance after destroying the New Republic on Hosnian Prime. You do know that the New Republic and Resistance weren't aligned, right? The Resistance was independent of the New Republic and not funded by it.

 

Even so that's an act of terror, not attrition.

Hux himself claimed that the Republic was against the FO. But due to the threat of the FO that dwarfed the threat of the Empire, the Republic was forced to play both sides of the war. And they were supporting and supplying the resistance.

Hosnian Prime was the central of galactic communications, the FO completely discombobulated the resistance to reach out to any system for funds or supplies with that act. The Republic played both sides.

Well yeah I do realize he attacked a resistance base after the fact, that was what the whole recharging of the weapon was about, but the fact remains Snoke employed attrition where Palpatine did not, and his military strategy must have been better by merely posing such a threat that the Republic would rather support them than the resistance whereas before a bunch of disgruntled systems weren't nearly as intimidated by the Imperial military.

 

Attacking Alderaan was both terror and attrition. Alderaan had been one of the biggest supporters of the Rebels. The Empire and Sidious knew this. The tactics that Snoke is employing are the exact same as what Sidious was doing. The FO was a bigger threat to the New Republic because the Resistance wasn't a threat to them, period. The Resistance only existed because the New Republic refused to act against the FO. They didn't exist to oppose the New Republic.

Hosnian Prime wasn't the center of galactic communications. I have no idea where you get that idea from. It was the seat of government but it's destruction didn't ruin the Resistance's communications abilities. That assertion has no basis in any facts we've been presented with. The Resistance can still communicate with all the other planet's of the galaxy just as it could have before.

 

It was a supporter but more than anything it was important to Leia because that was her home-world. It was purely for the effect of terrorism.

So they go from having a huge fleet and the support of hundreds of rebellious systems to what we see in TFA because after those systems broke away from the FO they felt more threatened by the Empire than the Resistance? They were completely independent, and the FO stood in their way after it rose from the remnants of the Empire, and they still do not support the FO other than out of fear. If they wanted they could do what they were doing with the Rebel Alliance again to face the FO, but they aren't.

Exactly, why isn't the New Republic opposing the First Order, what changed after the Empire became the First Order?? Nothing, except that the First Order has a new leader and regime and training method for it's non-cloned troops. Because it's superior.

It was the seat of government.

You don't think wiping out the most important star system in the galaxy with the busiest comm-links and largest network of communications will severely disrupt and hamper communications galaxy wide? The resistance can still communicate among themselves, but with the systems in the republic it's a little different than the resistance's personal military channel.

 

There are two blatant indications:

1: Kylo Ren ripping thoughts from his victims, Vader and Palpatine never doing this. They received thoughts, but it wasn't nearly as direct and intentional and forced as Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren froze blaster bolts along with people, again, we never see Sidious or Vader or any Jedi of the prequel trilogy doing this.

2: Again, we have the Rebel Alliance of star systems banding together after their victory at Endor against the Empire, forming a New Republic that lasts up until the Empire finds Snoke and becomes the First Order, then suddenly the New Republic turns into a bunch of cowards.

 

This isn't true.....

"Especially for, SISter....so you have a twin SISter!!"

EDIT: Never mind, I get what you're saying regarding this not being an outright mind probe.

 

What if it means Snoke/Plagueis needs a connecting flight and it's between two separate airports. That would be two tickets, right?

 

Pablo was clearly hacked. Snoke is Plagueis.

#nevergonnagiveup

 

If someone STILL believes that Snoke is Plagueis after Pablo's tweets from today, you are in absolute denial.

 

Possibly but isn't their some book that is canon now that states Palpatine was the apprentice of Plagueis? I thought I heard there was but may be wrong on that?

 

I honestly would have preferred Snoke being Plagueis to tie things together more than Snoke being a random darkside user we haven't heard about until the 7th movie. Tieing Snoke to Anakin's origins by making him Plagueis would have made for an interesting story and dynamic with Luke, Leia, Kylo, and potentially Rey.

 

The Tarkin novel. In it, the Emperor recalls things his master, Darth Plagueis said to him. It's an inner monologue and not him telling Vader anything about his old master. Darth Plagueis was the Sith Master of Darth Sidious. It's canon.

 

That is what I thought. Thanks

 

Plus, maybe it was just me but wasn't it obvious that Sidious was talking about his own master in RotS? Just look at his face when he's recalling how Plagueis was killed. He's relishing it, like a very fond memory. It was a superbly acted scene by Mr. McDiarmid.