Saga Darth Sidious: Ending the Mask vs Deformity Argument.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Formidious, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2015
    star 4
    It has been concluded, Darth Sidious has masked his true form using the force. Here is the evidence that should put a firm end to this hotly debated topic.


    1. George Lucas intended for Sidious to be corrupted by the dark side and decided it be shown progressively. However, this proved to be impractical so he decided to go with 'mask' idea; in which the mask literally melts away when using force lightning. This explains the discrepancy between his AOTC and ROTS appearance; the latter of which, he looks rejuvenated. Also, if the force lightning deformed his skin, did it also coincidentally deform his eyes as well, making them a typical Sith yellow? Did it make his voice coincidentally sound evil? Why didn't the force lightning destroy his clothing? How did he recover so fast?


    2. Derek Thompson: writer of, Sithisis. Had multiple interactions with, George Lucas. And, Ian Mcdiarmid. After consulting both, he ventured further into ROTS based on their information and developed the ritual behind the mask theory. Even though this is EU material, it confirms Lucas' intentions: [IMG] "Drawn by the Force"—Star Wars Insider 82


    3. Star Wars insider 82 confirms the mask theory; Star Wars insider 83 confirms the mask theory; Ian Mcdiarmid confirms the mask theory.


    4. Canon comic books directly and indirectly support the mask idea:
    • This page from the Lando comic book series indicates the dark side does indeed cause corruption; this royal guard merely spent time in the presence of Sith artifacts.
    • [IMG]
    • This image from the new Maul comic shows Palpatine's appearing deformed and corrupted; despite the events of the movie predating TPM.
    • [IMG]
    5. No other victim has been scarred by force lightning: Luke Skywalker, Mace Windu, Darth Maul.


    I hope this can clarify the awful myth of Palpatine being scarred by his own force lightning, this is unfounded and contradicts many canon sources. I hope we may finally lay this debate to rest.
  2. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Also, the description of Palpatine when Gallius Rax first meets him.
  3. Seagoat Music and PT Section Sentinel

    Manager
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    star 5
    Blue-eyed ugly Palpatine? The hell kind of world is this?
  4. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    You can't claim that.
  5. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

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    Dec 19, 2015
    star 4
    Why can't I? It's referenced and there's evidence for it.
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  6. Dandelo Jedi Grand Master

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    Aug 25, 2014
    star 6
    I prefer the lightning deformed him rather than mask theory myself.

    But each to his own.
  7. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 10, 2005
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    That comic depiction of Sidious doesn't look the least bit deformed to me.
  8. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

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    May 27, 1999
    star 5
    I figured it was like the old notion of how using black magic saps away a person's life force, and the longer it's used, the worse the damage grows. (See Prince Koura in "The Golden Voyage of Sinbad" for an illustration.) Palpatine used his great power to appear normal, then dropped the image when it would suit his aims.
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  9. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Where's the reference and evidence for this: "After consulting both, he ventured further into ROTS based on their information and developed the ritual behind the mask theory"?
  10. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    Presumably it's in issue 82 of Star Wars Insider. Maybe somebody has it and can present a scan of those pages of the Drawn By The Force section?
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  11. DBPirate Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2015
    star 3
    The lightning gives off the idea that he was deformed by his own powers and Dark Side abilities while the mask would imply the lightning made Palpatine's Dark Side use suddenly catch up with him.

    I think George was intending for the former to be the one that occurs.

    Additionally, the fact that the lightning was being shot back at him by a lightsaber is likely the reason that none of the others were scarred.
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  12. J7Luke Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2017
    star 1
    That is some good evidence, but here are some questions:
    • Why was Sidious not deformed any when he used Sith lightning on other occasions?
    • Why wasn't Dooku deformed when he used Sith lightning?
    • If Sidious could drop his mask to suit his needs, why didn't he drop it while on Sith business (ex. fighting Maul)?
    • Why would Sidious deliberately drop his mask in the middle of trying to appear as a feeble old man and the victim of a Jedi attack to Anakin and the Senate?
    My theory is that Sidious's lightning was reflected back by the lightsaber into him and he used that to make his outgoing lightning stronger. If the process went on forever, his lightning would continue to increase in power until it either overwhelmed Mace's blade or killed Sidious. If neither of those things happened, Sidious would have created an "unlimited power" source using the force. Okay, that last sentence was a poorly executed joke, but seriously... As Sidious's lightning surpassed the power of any other Sith lightning in the films, it began to deform him and also empower him. It simultaneously gave him more power and damaged him physically. That seems to answer all the questions I can think of about his deformity. I know that isn't canon, but it is my head canon answer.
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  13. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

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    Dec 19, 2015
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    Given the resources and my own research, I will try to answer as objectively and scientifically as I can but these will be logical assumptions. :D

    1) Sidious used Sith lightning on at least two occasions before his duel with Mace Windu. The first time was against Maul in the TCW, on Mandalore. In this episode, his eyes appeared amber. Again, in his final duel against Maul, Sidious one again presented the amber eyes as well as a disfigured appearance; this was during an extended bout of force lightning:

    [IMG]

    To me, this would suggest, Sidious' mask degenerated with his use of the dark side. During the duel with Mace, Sidious had fully embraced his rage and was one with the dark side. There was no need to wear a mask and it fully disintegrated: revealing the demon beneath.

    2) There is a vast difference between Dooku and Sidious. Sidious was the only known living Sith master and his strength in the force was unparalleled. To compare the two would be ridiculous. Dooku also didn't bare amber eyes.

    3) Dropping the mask didn't enhance his abilities, in any way. The mask was 'dropped' when he was using the dark side. Imagine the dark side as a flame and the mask as icing on a cake. The icing will soon melt away leaving an unattractive base. This wouldn't suit his needs either, during his duel with Maul, Sidious was still chancellor and had to maintain his image.

    4) Why not? Make it seem as if he was being injured and use his 'deformities' to trick Anakin that his life was truly in danger and manipulate the senate: his fort.

    I hope this helps! :)
    Last edited by Darth Formidious, Mar 21, 2017
  14. lookameatbag Jedi Knight

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    Nov 15, 2014
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    This theory is genius!
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  15. J7Luke Jedi Padawan

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    Jan 30, 2017
    star 1

    Nice answers! I don't want to believe the mask theory, but you've pretty much convinced me!
  16. Erkan12 Jedi Knight

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    Nov 27, 2013
    star 4

    That doesn't mean he was using a mask, Anakin's eyes were yellow in the Episode III, later his eyes were normal once again.

    [IMG]

    And then ;

    [IMG]

    As well as Dooku ;

    [IMG]
    Last edited by Erkan12, Mar 21, 2017
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  17. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 4
    That depiction of Sidious doesn't look deformed, either.
    He looks mean and has yellow eyes. That's it.
    Last edited by Lulu Mars, Mar 21, 2017
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  18. themoth Jedi Master

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    Dec 5, 2015
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    I'm not a believer of the mask theory. I think the lightning simply scarred his face.

    The yellow eyes come and go. They flare up when a Sith is 'in the zone'.
    Last edited by themoth, Mar 22, 2017
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  19. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
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    According to John Knoll, it was the "strain of the effort" that caused it. I believe that's from an issue of Star Wars Insider, but I have no link to back it up.

    Anyway, this is far from a closed case. There is no definitive in-universe proof and no matter what GL's original intentions were, what counts is the end result.

    I can go either way, personally. Knoll's explanation is easy for me to get behind. It makes sense to me that it would demand a huge effort on Palpatine's part to keep the lightning going while its coursing through his own body. It should hardly even be possible, but he musters all of his dark side power and that's what deforms him.
    Then, when he says he can't hold on any longer, he is telling the truth: His energy is really running low and he needs a breather before he can attack again.
  20. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    The fact is that there's no direct correlation between the "mask" reveal and using lightning. Wether he was scarred or it was his true face the whole time, what happened in RotS was a result of the lightning being reflected back to him by Mace Windu. Not him using lightning per se.

    That's correct. And all Sith (Sidious, Maul, Tyranus and Vader) can have them.
  21. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

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    Mar 10, 2005
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    "Fact"? That sounds more like a theory to me.
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  22. Erkan12 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2013
    star 4
    Nightbrothers have also yellow eyes time to time ;

    [IMG]

    And then ;

    [IMG]
  23. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

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    Dec 19, 2015
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    That is very interesting... I didn't notice Dooku's eyes until recently. However, the point still remains. Sidious looked more like his deformed self in the major comic book depictions, and other canon sources reveal that it is completely possible to be corrupted by the dark side (Royal Guard).


    This is interesting and brings a third argument to the table. However, the dialogue seemed too artifical. For Sidious to say he can't hold on any longer and then a few moments later this happens:

    [IMG]

    Considering this and all his gesticulations and facial expressions... It seemed to me GL was pretty clear in portraying Sidious as orchestrating the entire scene. :)
    Last edited by Darth Formidious, Mar 22, 2017
  24. Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2005
    star 4
    Well, there is that :)
    I've always felt that I would've liked to see Palpatine get more and more sickly-looking, especially since they had him look the way he did in AOTC.
    I do like the way his Emperor look is introduced in ROTS, though. Part of me just wishes that it had been made clear whether or not it was a facade.
    I guess GL intentionally left it vague to torture us, though :p
    Last edited by Lulu Mars, Mar 22, 2017
  25. Darth Formidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2015
    star 4

    Yeah that is certainly something we can agree on! GL had the intent of torturing us for an eternity with these cryptic scenes and foggy intentions. Darth Lucas truly is powerful! ^:)^
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