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Saga Darth Sidious: Ending the Mask vs Deformity Argument.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Formidious, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Not quite. The comics always took some artistic liberties with Sidious' depiction, even before Disney.
     
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  2. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015
    Artistic liberties don't apply to this case. This depicts Sidious as fully deformed, without interpretation or analysis.
     
  3. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    One thing i wonder about in the movies is why Palpatine seemed to have kept his mask on during his appearances as Darth Sidious during the prequels.

    If you look at what can be seen of his face there seem to be no deformations to be seen.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for him to take the mask off during his interactions with his allies, as it would help him to not look like he could be Palpatine?

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  4. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015

    I imagine the process of altering his appearance would have been a horrific or complex Sith ritual, to do this more times than necessary would be inefficient. Conversely, the 'mask' may have only come off with the passing of time or through the active use of the dark side (e.g: force lightning); to do this before every interaction could have blown his cover or taken too long. Lastly, his allies did not know he was Sith: there was no need to show them his true form.

    Donning the mask was not an on/off mechanism; it required rituals and preparation.
     
  5. SensationalSean

    SensationalSean Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 19, 2014
    I prefer the mask theory, especially since McDiarmid seems to back that thinking. The deformity idea is a little too obvious and makes things so literal - while a mask fits Sidious' character so well.
     
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  6. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 27, 2015
    Do you think Palpatine was holding back a lot when he was force lightening Luke? It feels like to me it wouldn't have taken that long to kill Luke if that was what he was really trying to do.
     
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  7. OneTrueOverlord

    OneTrueOverlord Jedi Knight star 1

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    Dec 19, 2015
    While I wouldn't go as far to say horrific or complex. I do agree that the effort of putting the mask on was less worth it than keeping it when talking to Gunray et al.



    He mentioned that Lucas told him that he has figurative eyes of glass. So Ian might have been playing to that idea.



    Self indulgence? Enjoying the idea of making the suffering last longer? It is certainly true that Palpatine could have killed Luke a lot quicker and with more effcient methods if he just wanted Luke dead. But he wanted to make him suffer and by doing that gave Vader enough time to consider his options...

    Also something thats been bugging me for twelve years. The final shot of Vader and the Emperor in Revenge of the Sith. Is that Ian MacDiamid sans makeup, cos it looks like it but all I see is the chin.
     
  8. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015

    Absolutely, the Emperor was not intending on killing Luke instantly. He wanted to torture him, make him suffer. Why, You may ask? Simply because Palpatine is a sadistic individual and he was in a state of thwarted rage. He was deriving sadistic pleasure from the torturing Luke, whom had been a thorn in his side. And as, OneTrueOverlord, correctly said; the Emperor enjoyed self-indulgence from torture or executing grand and exquisite plans which would prove to be his downfall.

    The most powerful Sith lord of all time, could've executed Luke in an instant, but chose not to.
     
  9. MeBeJedi

    MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    Actually, I don't think the Force lighting is all that powerful a power. It's a great sneak attack, but can be blocked by a lightsaber, and even by another Force user.

    EMPEROR
    If you will not be turned, you will be
    destroyed.

    Blinding bolts of energy, evil lightning, shoot from the
    Emperor's hands at Luke. Even in his surprise, the young Jedi
    tries to use the Force to deflect them. At first he is half
    successful, but after a moment the bolts of energy are coming
    with such speed and power the young Jedi shrinks before them, his
    knees buckling. The wounded Vader struggles to his feet, and
    moves to stand at his master's side. - ROTJ Script

    Palpatine raised his spidery arms toward Luke: blinding white bolts of energy
    coruscated from his fingers, shot across the room like sorcerous lightning, and tore
    through the boy's insides, looking for ground. The young Jedi was at once
    confounded and in agony—he'd never heard of such a power, such a corruption of the
    Force, let alone experienced it.
    But if it was Force-generated, it could be Force-repelled. Luke raised his arms
    to deflect the bolts. Initially, he was successful—the lightning rebounded from his
    touch, harmlessly into the walls. Soon, though, the shocks came with such speed
    and power, they coursed over and into him, and he could only shrink before them,
    convulsed with pain, his knees buckling, his powers at ebb.
    Vader crawled, like a wounded animal, to his Emperor's side. - ROTJ novelization

    Yoda, being more powerful than Luke, was more successful, obviously. That said, no one in the films is ever killed by it, even Palpatine. I agree than Palpatine wanted Luke to suffer, but I think it would still take a long time for a person to actually die by the power.

    That said, Lucas obviously needed PT Palpatine to look like OT Palpatine, and rather than show a slow transformation of Palpatine being degraded over time by his Dark Side use, chose to use this scene for a quick transformation. As such, it kinda throws a wrench into his whole transformation. Had it been true that Palpatine used a "Force mask", why did he drop the mask when addressing the Galactic Council afterwards? This whole situation is kind of a mess.
     
  10. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015
    These reasons have already been discussed in the thread. It is entirely logical.
     
  11. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    Here's the thing:
    which makes Palpatine's character more interesting?
    That he was powerful enough to create a mask with the Dark Side of the Force and fool everyone, including the Jedi. Or
    that he just got damaged by his own lighting and boo hoo for him.
     
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  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    What makes the character interesting has nothing to do with the origin of his face.
     
  13. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    Wait, do people say that back fired Force lightning didn't affect Palpatine at all ?
    That's not a theory, that's what they told us in the movie and that's what happened when Windu deflected Force lightning right into his face.
     
  14. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    I beg to differ.
    If the origin of his hideous face was that he was harmed by his own lightning then sure, it has nothing to do with Papa Papl's character.
    But if the origin of his hideous face was that he was corrupted by his own power a long time ago and that he has to hide it for his deception of the galaxy at large to work, then it has a whole heck of a lot more importance to his character and makes him more interesting.
    Since the matter is open to debate, I choose to go with the explanation that adds to the characters depth rather than the explanation that makes him a victim of circumstance.
     
  15. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    I always like this interpretation.

     
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  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Or both. It could be a mask and said mask was gone due to the lightning being reflected back to him.

    Eitherway, nothing was revealed or defined as the OP tried to imply.
     
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  17. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Just to add that there was an explanation once (the only one that directly came from George) for Palpatine's disfigurement in the rough draft of ROTS:

    Bolded for emphasis. Since he never contradicted that concept in the movie itself or any other future work, I'd say this should be the de facto explanation for this 'issue'.
     
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  18. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 27, 2013
    What's wrong with this art ?

    [​IMG]

    I see no wound or scars, no yellow eyes or teeths... It's just the way they use shadow on his face.
     
  19. dblaney1

    dblaney1 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 27, 2017
    I wanted to post that I strongly support the mask theory. The Clone Wars series has some evidence of it as well, when sidious is strongly using the dark side in the fight against maul you can see he looks deformed.

    [​IMG]

    Also from some of the deleted footage they didn't use you can see his models face lit up completely where you see he looks worse than his normal palpatine model. I suspect that whenever he is strongly using the dark side his mask fades away and has to be reapplied.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Jealousy.
     
  21. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2015
    No, it doesn't. That quote says nothing of his appearance.
     
  22. The Legions of Lettow

    The Legions of Lettow Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 14, 2015
    Well, this canonical evidence settles the issue.

    Back in 2005 on these hallowed boards, I argued on behalf of the Deformed side and produced evidence. However, GL later in an interview, perhaps in the ROTS DVD?, came down on both IIRC. Anyone got a copy on hand?
     
  23. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

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    Dec 19, 2015
    What will it take for people to give up on the deformity theory? I have posted evidence directly contradicting it. Others have posted evidence directly contradicting it.

    I think we need to accept the deformity theory is dead.
     
  24. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Do people have to accept that evidence as fact?
     
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  25. dblaney1

    dblaney1 Jedi Youngling

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    Jun 27, 2017
    The Clone Wars is 100% canon and the first screenshot I posted clearly shows him deformed.