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Saga Darth Sidious: Ending the Mask vs Deformity Argument.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth Formidious, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 7, 2014
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I honestly can't say he looks any different to how he usually looks in TCW, besides the obvious Sith eyes, so that isn't really 'evidence' for the mask, rather against it.
     
  2. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015

    To say people have to accept this as hard fact would be authoritarian of me; people can believe in whatever they want. However, the only logical and rational approach would be to accept to this as fact. The time of ambiguity has passed and we have had direct confirmation from higher sources, multiple higher sources, that the mask theory is correct. So for the sake of canon narrative, it would be advisable that people be bipartisan and accept the facts.

    As a proponent of the mask theory, which is now more fact than theory, this was not included in the original pieces of evidence.

    People discarding the mask theory remind me creationists opposing Darwinian evolution theory LOL.
     
  3. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    I believe Rick McCallum did in fact confirm that fact somewhere. Also, back at the time of Palpatine's creation for ESB/ROTJ, the reasoning behind his appearance was that he was both an ancient being and one that was corrupted by dark powers. Meanwhile, Ian McDiarmid made a reference to Palpatine being "over 100" as recent as the Blu Ray commentary, meaning the idea wasn't discarded and chalked up as him being scarred.

    Personally, I like the OT reasoning that Palpatine is like the antithesis of Yoda, being just as old and powerful. And it's perfectly possible that that can be consolidated with the films.
     
  4. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Not really.

    The false equivalency is strong in this one...
     
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  5. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd The Man / Also Known as Bazinga'd star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Dont go there...... anakinfansince1983
     
  6. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Palpatine could have snapped his neck with the force more than likely . He was just torturing Luke for his defiance
     
  7. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    He was trying to kill Luke. Slowly and painfully...
     
  8. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016

    Why doesn't Luke just accept that death is a part of life, instead of selfishly begging his father to try and prevent it?
     
  9. Darth Formidious

    Darth Formidious Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Luke's death would have resulted in the Emperor's continuing iron grip on the galaxy, the rebellion to be crushed, and the death of the Jedi as well as his friends. Luke was not only begging for his life but fighting a dwindling battle for all these factors... Accepting death would be accepting defeat.
     
  10. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I was being slightly facetious about that. But you make the correct point which also shows that the outcome of your actions or your desires dictate whether they are selfless or selfish. Not the desires themselves. And it is, more often than not, the circumstances in which you find yourself that governs how far you are prepared to go. Rather than just by supposedly objective codes.
     
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  11. Strongbow

    Strongbow Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2014
    I'm in the corruption coming ot the surface camp. No one gets burned and scarred like that and thengoes to act like nothing happened. All part of the act.
     
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  12. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Yah, if he was truly "deformed" you'd figure he wouldn't just proclaim Anakin Darth Vader, calmly sit in his chair and bark out orders for the destruction of the Jedi, he'd probably be like "ARGGGHHHH!!! I NEED A MEDIC!!"

    The description of him in Aftermath is the one that seals it for me, personally considering the flashbacks take place pre ROTS and Rax sees him as full on Darth Sidious mode. (However one could take into context narrator's POV that he looks scarier to Rax than what he actually is)
     
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  13. dblaney1

    dblaney1 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2017
    I think more evidence of it being a mask is the fact that Obi Wan's appearence was able to completely changed using nanotechnology to disguise him as Hardeen, so we know that this level of disguise is entirely possible. Because it was nanotechnology used for the disguise so the electricity could in fact short circuit the tech thus revealing his true form. After the incident with Windu he had a explanation for his true look so he no longer needed a disguise.
     
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  14. Infinitelysmall

    Infinitelysmall Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2004
    Hey all, apologies if it's not cool to mention a podcast here - but it is relevant to this thread and not just an advert!

    (I did check the rules and couldn't see a rule preventing me from mentioning it...)

    Just so you know we discussed this thread on our Star Wars podcast last week - 'Jedi and Juice'. It was part of a segment called 'Jedi Archives' where we find a cool fan forum topic that's got a good discussion idea and then feature it on the show.

    We're a relatively new weekly podcast (11 eps), but we're hoping to engage as much as of the community as possible and this seemed like a good place to visit! So, to find out what side of the Mask vs. Deformity argument we came down on you can listen to last week's ep. free on iTunes. https://twitter.com/JediandJuice

    Any feedback you guys have would be great and could be featured on the show as well if you approve it - you can tweet us or email us at jediandjuice@gmail.com
     
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  15. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Apr 18, 2017
    The mask idea is certainly cooler, and perhaps that's what Lucas had in mind before the reshoot of the Sidious/Mace duel. However, the desire to make the prequels as mediocre as possible won out.
     
  16. Master Endz-One

    Master Endz-One Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2017

    I agree with it being a mask, but I believe we are all unfair to the PT. The PT had limitations, due to having to make a connection to the OT. I for one enjoyed the PT, but I do acknowledge it could have been better. The PT got caught up trying to make sense of the OT and every mistake made.
     
  17. Nibelung

    Nibelung Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2017
    I meant no insult to the makers of the PT with that statement. I'm pretty sure George Lucas wanted the PT -- at least the version of it known to the general public -- to be mediocre and disappointing in the eyes of many.

    What better way of ending one's status as an idol in the eyes of the masses than showing them you have feet of clay?
     
  18. Darth_Accipiter

    Darth_Accipiter Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2015
    I don't like the mask theory. We've seen that the use of the dark side will corrupt its user physically. When Mace bounced back Sidious's dark side attack I think it created a dark side nexus of sorts around Sidious which exponentially sped up his physical degeneration. Not only was Sidious using the dark side, but he was having it reflected at his face.
     
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  19. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Isn't there just, ye know, an inherent degree of ambiguity here?
    Maybe I'm crazy, but when an idea like this has been disputed for so long, there's usually a reason for it beyond random argument.

    The canon is constantly shifting on this one, adding subtle, indirect clues to what's really going on. Lucas, as always, can be informative but also perplexing, one moment to the next.

    Each implementation of Force lightening occurs in different environments too, and with different Force users of different skill sets. So we can't blanket solve the issue by saying "Force lightening should do this, and only this, and this is the only way it can perform". After all, it is a product of the fury of the Dark Side, not a selectable hotkey in an RPG (from the perspective we're discussing, at least). There is an amount of unpredictability involved.
     
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  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Yah to be fair, in a Marvel Star Wars comic the Emperor zapped Rebel Spy Eneb Ray and he survived but then looked like this after awhile

    [​IMG]

    more of a continual gestating corruption as opposed to being directly fried
     
  21. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I'm clearly in the unpopular opinion here but I like the "scarred and deformed" theory.

    I think the corruption from the dark side theory makes the most sense as one could infer that Palpatine is a 100 years old in ROTJ, but I like that there's an "event", sort of speak, to why he looks all messed up.

    Like a failed assassination attempt or a tragic loss of the Chancellor's looks for his evil crimes. Gives a story to his actual face instead of it just being a thing that's bound to happen.

    Idk, either way, I'm OK with whatever.
     
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  22. Pacified_llama

    Pacified_llama Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 15, 2017
    I always found the "uncovering" of the mask (i.e. seeing him uncloaked) disturbing but also disappointing in TCW. I liked the theme of maintaining the shroud of the Dark Side until the proper time came. To keep the dramatic irony stronger, so to speak.
    This discussion here has become quite technical, but we should neglect Palpatine's presentation of the dual-persona before his duel with Mace. It's a visual theme as much as anything. So that could support the 'mask' reading.

    Again, the canon becomes a minefield because it is inconsistent and only selectively picking from it will make it appear otherwise.
     
  23. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    There's no mask. He looks the way he does as both Sidious and Palpatine, until (as stated in the script) he got deformed by the extreme use of the dark side when trying to beat Mace. Of course he later used that to his advantage in the senate.
     
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  24. Dandelo

    Dandelo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    so...I take it the mask theory argues that he can just hide his true appearance by using the force while being face to face with an office full of council member Jedi for years and not one of these top Jedi can sense this?

    yup...no. Not buying that for one second. This theory seems like one of those "Palpatine is an untouchable god" like sending Anakin force dreams and sucking the life force out of Padme and other such theories.
     
  25. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Sep 6, 2017
    I dont have my copy handy but I think the ROTS novel has Sdious reflecting on how his true face would now do after his fight with Mace. Palpitine used his unaltered appearance to futher cement his power by showing his" injury "when he addressed the Senate and how his resolve remained intact.