Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by black_saber, Nov 14, 2012.
How is this thread still open? Vader coming back?
We are more likely to see Sidious than Vader IMO
I seriously thought this was locked.
It probably isn't a good idea.
I have speculated that someone will at least communicate, if not actually come back from "the netherworld." They reference communicating to it at the end of Sith with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.
If there is one character that bringing back would benefit in terms of popularity, it surely is Vader.
I say if it really works in the story (which I don't see, but you never know), then do it. Just don't bring him back for the sake of bringing him back.
No, I don't like the idea of someone wearing the outfit who isn't Vader, as some are saying. The suit/mask/life support with the respirator are what kept him alive due to the near-death burning; to put that on someone else would be silly and ridiculous. Almost like someone who can walk going around in a wheelchair to imitate another character.
Not quite. They reference communicating with someone who has returned from it and thus is no longer there. Eventually this applies to Anakin, at a point when "Vader" is no more. So there's no bringing Vader back from the netherworld, that simply does not make sense.
That's true. But I'd prefer if Vader doesn't return (maybe in a flashback, but no more). If Anakin returns, I guess I'd be fine with it, but not in a very large part.
Personally I feel that Return of the Jedi is such a closer that it will be very hard for any scriptwriter to create a believable continuity with both the existing trilogies. I mean, in Jedi you have absolutely all the main bad guys die - Boba Fett crashes into the Sarlacc (the Special Edition even adding a beak to the monster to make it even more visible), Jabba the Hutt is strangled by chains; the Emperor is thrown down a shaft, and...Darth Vader turns away from the Dark Side of the Force just in time to become one with the Force as a ghost (don't get me started on the hows and whys of the Special Edition's replacement). The second Death Star is destroyed, the rebels win and the Ewoks dance. Even on Naboo they celebrate the end of Empire. Yes, there are probably remnants of the Empire considering its size, but if the sequels will take place thirty-forty years after Jedi that becomes kind of meaningless.
The Expanded Universe tells many strange tales of what happened, but they do not count. Can't believe how many posts I've seen here discussing EU for VII when that is clearly out of the question, not because I personally feel 98% of it is weaker than weaksauce, but because it is obvious that the films, and only the films, are canon and so no screenwriter needs to heed anything happening in the countless novels.
If they choose to go with Darth Vader in Episode VII, they need a really good excuse for it storywise. Of course, Vader might draw the public's attention, but I think there is no solution that won't hurt the story. Vader ceased to exist when Anakin returned, and his armor was burned on a pyre on Endor.
I'm talking the physical Vader here.
Now, his shadow could loom large over, say, Luke Skywalker, and he could be mentioned...
One final point-
You can argue that the Star Wars films are already fantasy of the highest order, pure magic what with all the impossibilities presented in the films, but still the two trilogies each draw a line of what is and what is not "allowed" in the story world, and having a physical return of Darth Vader goes against it. IMO!IMO!
It's important not to feel threatened by the size of his part.
I don't think that meant returning from it in the material sense, I think they were meaning returning from it like Obi Wan was in parts 5 and 6; otherwise Qui-Gon would have been sitting there with them. I don't think that means they were permanently back, just able to come back to communicate ("teach him to commune with him I will"), otherwise they would be stuck between worlds in a sense.
It is true that he died as Anakin, but that could easily take a plot twist to where he was evil again. In any case, I doubt bringing him back in any way would make for a good story, they are better of leaving him out of the movie entirely I think.
In the Qui-Gon deleted scene, he is essentially sitting there with Yoda, just not visibly. He's not stuck between worlds, per se, in the sense that he exists in the same world as Yoda, just as the Force does. The few pieces of evidence we have suggest that Force ghosts have passed through the netherworld as opposed to residing there.
Also, I don't think Force ghosts tend to turn evil, and I don't think it would be a great plot line if they did.
Force ghosts turning evil would ruin everything.
New story. New bad guy (gal?).
Can the new bad guy use the good side of the force for evil in the next film?
The dark side of the force is using the force itself to do evil. Thus if you are doing something considered lightside to do evil, you are still doing it via the darkside.
lightning can still be used by lightsiders, if that is what you mean by good/evil.
Lightsiders may be able to produce a facsimile, but true Sith lightning is a dark side ability no matter what it is used for, because it is conjured through use of the dark side. We can certainly say that lightsiders could use it, in the sense that they possess the free will to do so, but we know that dark side powers are gradually corruptive and cannot be used by lightsiders with impunity.
Uhm, no it can't. Sith Lightning is only conjured by someone deeply immersed in the Dark Side and specifically taught the Sith Technique by a fully trained Dark Lord of the Sith. In AOTC commentary Lucas states that the only reason he made Darth Tyrannus use Sith Lightning was to let the audience know that he had completely turned to the Dark Side and was a bad guy. No if's and but's about it.
Maybe in some ridiculous EU novel or comic Lightsiders can use lightning, but not in SW cannon.
No Anakin or Vader in the new films. I think the PT did enough to change Vader's character overall...they need to let it be.
New villain please.
Anakin should be there, just not necessarily as a central character.
I stand corrected.
Could a good not-corrupted jedi choose to use the dark side Sith force lighting for good? Could the new jedi of the next film try to use the good and bad side of the force, or will that only pull them more into the dark side? Is it possible to balance the light and dark side of the force equally by a jedi or even by a sith?
I can see Vader returning in a Force Vision of sorts.
Though maybe that inside source, if not just someone talking out of his ****, is possibly referring to Hayden Christensen returning to portray Anakin's spirit.
It could be a lot of things.
It could be a reference to a Dark Times film of some kind, not a part of VII-IX.
It most likely is just someone "stirring the pot" to generate controversy and amuse themselves.
Vader back for Ep7 sounds like the type of idea that would make me leave the movie theater. But I don't see it happening. Hayden/Anakin as a Force Goast is possible, but not a very good idea either. I really hope that they invent some new things and don't just re-use/refer to old stuff.
Where is that deleted scene? It is not in the deleted scene on the DVD, I have seen them all a thousand times.
I don't see how he isn't stuck between worlds, he doesn't exist as a material being, and he isn't in the netherworld, so he must be in between in a sense.
Well, we don't have much info on force ghosts, so I don't think we can make those kinds of assumptions. Maybe it wouldn't make a good story, but I don't think Anakin coming back would make any better of a story, I think it is time to move on.