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Lit Darth Vader or Grand AdmiralThrawn who is the more compelling villian ?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by fett 4, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 2, 2000
  2. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
  3. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 28, 2013
    lol Han killed that dude, right?

    [​IMG]
    Look at this schmuck.

    Oh, and I like me some Thrawn, but dude: it's gotta be Vader.
     
  4. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013
    If we take the opinions of the writers as gospel, then clearly Daala's the most compelling villain in the franchise: just look at how often they keep bringing her back. Clearly they know something the rest of us don't. Maybe they could be so kind as to clue us in to this something, so it stops being torturous every time that maniac shows up.

    If you insist on staying on topic, then I have to ask what the point of this discussion is. Even people such as myself who still like Zahn's writing aren't going to dispute the fact that Vader's a more compelling character; given how much more development he gets, we could fairly consider the entire franchise a failure if he weren't. This should obvious, so unless the point of the thread is get everyone to dogpile on Thrawn and talk about how overrated he is, then the whole thing seems a bit moot.
     
  5. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 28, 2013
    This. Well put.
     
  6. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 2, 2000
    It was more to see if people agreed with the interviewer when he put that
     
  7. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    This thread reminds me of when Pellaeon wondered what would have happened if Thrawn commanded the Battle of Endor instead of Vader. Vader didn't command the Battle of Endor! Also, Vader and Sidious are one of a kind.
     
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Might be a fairer comparison if it was comparing them in the same media.

    Imagine someone who has never seen Star Wars- give them the OT novelizations, and the Thrawn trilogy novelizations. They read both.

    Would they find Thrawn or Vader more compelling?

    Or, for slightly more visual example- give them the OT (comic versions) and the Thrawn trilogy comics. They read them. What might they conclude?

    My guess is that Pellaeon, from his seat on the Chimaera, didn't notice Vader's shuttle heading to the Death Star (then to Endor and back) and throughout the battle, assumed the orders coming in from the Executor were coming in from Vader rather than Piett.

    That's a good in-universe reason for him making that mistake.
     
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  9. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    He wouldn't have found out afterwords?
     
  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Nom Anor.


    ...on topic: Vader, in spite of what Zahn wants you to believe.
     
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  11. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 2, 2000
    To be fair to Zahn in this instance it was the interviewer, after all if an interviewer from the number 1 starwars fansite said it, then there must some fans who think it, err I think :confused:
     
  12. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 4

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    Jan 2, 2000
    Interesting because if you think visually we first see them, with Vader is a big 7 footman dressed in black who is striding on to a space ship then strangling a man to death 1 handed with no real effort while talking to stormtroopers, looking for some plans. It's a hell of a visual also with James Earl Jones booming voice a great audio.

    With Thrawn you see blue skinned guy in a white uniform in a room full of artwork speaking too Pellaeon, before defeating an enemy fleet that Pellaeon wanted to run from by divining through artwork what there commander was. In terms of audio it's more a Sherlock Holmes style voice
     
  13. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 17, 2011
    [​IMG]

    No contest for me.
     
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The point I was making is that a movie has a huge advantage over a book, or even a comic.

    "Reducing them to the same media" puts them on an equal footing.
     
  15. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 28, 2013
    Who would win at thumb wrestling?
     
  16. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 12, 2013
    Sorry, whoever said that is a bit of a moron. He was obviously just trying to butter Zahn up. Which character has become an icon of popular culture since the 1970s? And which one is a niche villain from a tie-in book series? I love Thrawn, don't get me wrong, but he's nowhere near to Vader, despite the Prequels doing whatever they could to destroy the mystique around the latter.

    What does "compelling villain" even mean? A more enjoyable villain to read about? A more complex character? I don't even know what criteria the interviewer has for a quote like that.
     
  17. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    To most people, Star Wars is the story of Luke Skywalker and his evil father Darth Vader.
     
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  18. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Thrawn in the Thrawn trilogy might be the most compelling villain in the EU with Nom Anor in a close second but Vader blows him out the water by a mile.
     
  19. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Vader > Zsinj > Thrawn.

    Thrawn, like Revan, is compelling up and until you meet his legions of fanboys and subsequent attempts to Stuify the characters beyond where they already were, which is enough to sour anybody on those characters.
     
  20. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    Thrawn was a VERY well-written VERY compelling villain.

    Darth Vader is an archetype of evil known by billions and on par with Captain Hook and the Wicked Witch of the West for giving kids nightmares.
     
  21. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 29, 2005
    It's too simplistic a question, and relies too much on personal opinion. Also, I don't see the real need to "rank" them, they can be compelling for different reasons, or more compelling in their respective mediums, etc.

    But if we're going to do so, Xim and Zaarin are above everyone. That's just indisputable.
     
  22. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Thrawn's a fairly good villain, but he's only an intellectual foe. He has no combat skills whatsoever, in fact, the main protagonists never actually meet him in person. Which is probably intentional, as Luke, Leia and even Han could probably kill Thrawn in single combat.

    Vader and the Emperor had real power, they confronted their enemies personally and killed many of them himself. Thrawn's a brilliant tactician but he's utterly useless in a fight. He relies on his Noghri to do all his fighting and killing for him, which is very fitting, as he isn't killed by the heroes, but stabbed by his own guard.

    What an ignominious way to die.
     
  23. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I don't think you need to be physically present to be a great villain. Sauron is never faced by the heroes of LOTR.

    Likewise, Thrawn had an artistic death.

    :)
     
  24. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Everything must be ranked.


    I give you a 37.
     
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  25. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    I always thought that was the weakest part of LOTR. It's a pity that Peter Jackson didn't go through with his plan to have Sauron materialize in front of the Black Gate and duel Aragorn. I like a villain that appears in person, that poses a physical threat to the heroes.

    Thrawn never does that. All he does is command a weakened Empire and never actually faces the heroes.

    Huh, he and Sauron have a lot in common.
     
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