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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

CT Darth Vader's "nooo" when killing Sidius... where's the problem?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Jo Lucas, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Encuentro

    Encuentro Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2013
    I wasn't referring to the quality but the versions. I meant to say that most fans would be satisfied with an HD quality release of the versions that were standard through the LD era, the LD being the best quality format before DVD became the standard format, and that most fans wouldn't mind the "Episode IV: A New Hope" in the opening crawl despite the subtitle not being in the original theatrical release.
     
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  2. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    They sometimes do. It's called the b-cut roll, and includes most of the takes not included in the final theatrical cut. I know that the directors cut of Rob Zombie's Halloween includes the alternate takes and blooper reel as special features, and Jurassic World likewise released the B roll as part of it's marketing. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if that B-roll shows up among the special features in the home release, along with a blooper reel.
     
  3. All_Powerful_Jedi

    All_Powerful_Jedi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 12, 2003
  4. squir1y

    squir1y Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 1, 2003
    I like it a lot better than the one in ROTS. For some reason, that one sounded kinda silly. But I think the one in Jedi works pretty well. I can't really explain it. Guess it just isn't a Star Wars flick without a NOOOOO!
     
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  5. S2N2

    S2N2 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2015
    In a vacuum, I think the silence is more powerful.

    Unfortunately, we don't live in a vacuum. There are 6 movies like it or not, and the added "no" directly parallels a scene from ROTS.

    And no, its not the scene where he hears about Padme's death. It's the scene when Mace and Palp are fighting and Anakin is standing there watching. Like in ROTJ, Anakin must choose: the Jedi or Sith. Notice the similarities? Palatine using lightening. A jedi "family member" in need of Anakin's help. Anakin caught in between looking back and forth conflicted until finally.... "Nooooo!" He chooses the Sith and out of impulse chops windus hand off.

    The scene in ROTJ directly parallels this. Only in ROTJ he chooses the Jedi and is redeemed. The added "no's" simply add to the coherency and create a better continuity with ROTS. This and other parallels are explained extensively in "Star Wars Ring Theory"

    Like I said originally, I actually prefer the original version of no "no's" in a vacuum. However in the context of the entire saga, I appreciate this little added edit because it creates more coherency with ROTS and with the overall story arc of Anakin and with the saga.
     
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  6. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015

    I agree. And, yeah, there is many a no in these movies: Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon's Force ghost, Anakin/Vader twice in ROTS, Luke in ANH and TESB, and Anakin/Vader in ROTJ.
     
  7. Droid_Rage

    Droid_Rage Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2015
    Think of it this way. Let's say you have a favorite song that you know the lyrics by heart. Then some time later, the musician rewrites those lyrics or adds lyrics to the originals. Wouldn't you be a bit unhappy about that?
     
  8. Dagobahsystem

    Dagobahsystem Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2015
    It's interesting to chart all of the changes GL has made to these films, however, as many others have mentioned, the OOT should be made available in a blu ray set.
    Vader's added "No!" in RotJ is interesting and does parallel RotS, but I prefer the original, non speaking version. It is more suspenseful, shows more determination and conveys more spiritual overtones that way.
     
  9. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    You are the only one I've ever heard make this claim! It is obvious what's happening in the scene. I understood it as an eight-year-old, and so did everyone I've ever talked to about this scene.
    The added "no" only explains the scene to people who probably won't understand what's happening anyway, since they've most likely never seen the entire film.
     
    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  10. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    I wonder if over the years some people told Lucas about how they misinterpreted or mistook scenes from what most people got from them?

    From the "Han shoots first" (which has it's own level of massive misunderstanding) to why Vader is killing the Emperor to how the hell is R2 supposed to be hiding from the Sand people when all they have to do is look over their shoulders to see him and is Han wearing his jacket or not in the carbon freeze chamber?!?

    Which is one of the reasons why he did the final? changes to the BD versions.
     
  11. Jedi with a TARDIS

    Jedi with a TARDIS Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 4, 2013
    I sort of understand why the silence is preferred, but this idea that an unaltered version would be SOOO MUCH BETTER is frankly, tremendously overstated. There just aren't that many out there that would buy them and/or be satisfied with them. Sure, you'd get the fanatics, curiosity seekers, and scalpers but even with all these people combined you wouldn't get nearly enough sales as you think you would. (Certainly not enough to make the effort profitable.) You'd also open up the chance for the inevitable critical eye that would turn on them. I know it's sacrilege to say, but the ORIGINAL originals are not masterpieces and are pretty dated. Every flaw will be magnified and made Huffington post click-bait. The inevitable "Was Star Wars really that great to begin with?" culture question will be asked. Disney knows this and, judging by their tactical marketing, will avoid any microscopic opening for criticism. They're not going to break this winning streak for the little money these versions would make.

    Bottom line: There aren't as many of you as you think there are. OOT versions will not be happening in the foreseeable future, with or without GL's say-so.
     
  12. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    It's not sacrilege, but it's wrong. The originals (especially ANH) are masterpieces. Whether the effects are dated or not has nothing to do with that (of course the effects of a movie made 38 years ago are dated). A New Hope is still, nearly four decades later, celebrated as one of the most important films in cinema history. If that doesn't make it a masterpiece, then I'd dearly like to know what your definition of a masterpiece is.

    As for "was Star Wars really great to begin with", I'm sure a few posts such as that would surface, were the OOT to be released - but not to any greater extent. The OOT was released on DVD less than ten years ago, with little or no backlash (except complaints that it wasn't anamorphic).
     
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    If Star Wars were not a masterpiece, the ORIGINAL originals would not be in the Library of Congress archives.

    No Breitbart or Fox News "b...bu...but it's better when the lead female loses the will to live over her man instead of talking back to him while he's trying to save her!" changes that, nor does a lack of recognition of how Star Wars revolutionized special effects.

    And there was no need to add the "NOOO!" for "mirroring" because we already know that ROTS is the prequel that told of Anakin's fall, and ROTJ is the story of his redemption. We don't need "mirroring" to make that point.
     
  14. Wookiee_Vader

    Wookiee_Vader Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Which is bizarre to me. Luke's scream was clearly out of place and tasteless, he recognised that and got rid of it. But then he goes and adds the "no" which is about as out of place as you can get.

    It's just his apparent obsession with making the two trilogies in his words "rhyme". There is a way to be a little more subtle about it though. In any case, GL will always be a great man.
     
  15. Jedi with a TARDIS

    Jedi with a TARDIS Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 4, 2013
    It DOES matter. Masterpieces transcend time. They don't get dated. They can still effect people now as they did in the past. Star Wars certainly comes close, as in so-so very close, but the harsh fact is they don't have the same impact now as they did when they first came out. The special effects are a portion of the reason why. The other is cynicism and "realism" is the name of the game now and hopefulness is the territory of the naive. A New Hope would be mocked for being Pollyanna's Playhouse. (Which says more about our "evolution" and "progress" than GL's intelligence.)
     
  16. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Casablanca and Citizen Kane are dated because they weren't shot in colour!
    Imagine that they didn't shoot Sunset Blvd. in widescreen - what a dated movie!
    The Good, The Bad and The Ugly didn't shoot with synch-sound, and characters are obviously dubbed. Certainly no masterpiece!
     
  17. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015

    Well, nothing wrong with the Huffington Post, since they bring up some good issues, but I know what you mean. Well, I do think there is this deification of the original, unaltered Classic Trilogy. I believe that most people can agree that the changes to TESB, which were primarily related to audio changes, are acceptable, much like McDiarmid portraying Palpatine in that film is more accepted. Most people appear to be complaining about the CGI and other alterations to ANH and ROTJ. This addition of no to the 2011 edition of ROTJ is a mixed bag. I could read Vader's body language, his inner conflict, and his decision to save Luke from Sidious without the no, and I did so for sixteen years. I don't mind the no, or, rather, both of them, because it goes with the body language. I'm not enthusiastic about it. I could live without it or with it. I understand why Lucas added it. He thinks it's poetic in a way, and it's shouted for a similar reason for the bellow in ROTS, as well as a different one. In my view, I think that spoiling the reveal of the Falcon in ANH with the Jabba appearance, the song Jedi Rocks, and stuff like that are worse or more questionable changes than Vader screaming at the end of ROTJ. I understand it's a question of subtlety, however. I don't think he's going to remove Vader's bellow in ROTJ as he removed Luke's unnecessary scream he temporarily added to TESB.

    Granted, I do not like some of the changes made to the CT. It's like turning black-and-white films to color. While I haven't liked them, I never have loathed them as much as other people. That's just me.
     
  18. The hidden holocron

    The hidden holocron Jedi Knight star 1

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    Sep 16, 2015
    It's unnecessary. Not ugly, but this change not needed.
     
  19. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Luke screamed while falling in ESB? [face_laugh] Just sounds funny
     
  20. Jedi with a TARDIS

    Jedi with a TARDIS Jedi Knight star 2

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    Mar 4, 2013

    Cas and Kane aren't dated by lack of color. Their stories transcend this (and lack of color certainly is no indication of date - Much Ado About Nothing/The Artist much?) Since I haven't seen Sun. B. I can't comment, and I'm really not sure G, B, and U is considered a masterpiece. Maybe of the Western genre but that category itself is dated.
     
  21. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Of course they are not. But effects aging doesn't make a movie any less of a masterpiece either. And unconvincing effects are also made nowadays.

    You should - it's wonderful!
    And of course the 1.37:1 aspect ratio doesn't detract from that, even if it's an aspect ratio that isn't used anymore (that was the aspect ratio of Casablanca and Citizen Kane as well, btw).

    It is considered a masterpiece, synch-sound or not.

    The point is, just because filmmaking techniques change, and become better/more advanced with time, doesn't mean that older films can't be masterpieces. You seem to agree with this to an extent, so why is special effects an exception?
     
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  22. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    1997 ESB SE. Sounds like Palpatine.
     
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  23. Davak24

    Davak24 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2015
    This scene shouldn't exist, imo.
     
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  24. CT1138

    CT1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Definitely agreed. One of the things that makes a film a truly good, lasting, and impacting film is that is has a timeless quality. It doesn't date itself with inane cultural references that will drag down the film when watched 20 years down the road. Star Wars is timeless. The Godfather is timeless. Jaws is timeless. Jurassic Park (primarily the first film) is timeless. The technology may not be as "state of the art", but then again, technology in the SW OT isn't either (computer screens are built into the console, buttons and switches everywhere instead of touch screen, mentions of "data tapes"). What matters is that, even today - scratch that - especially today, with discussions of genetically modified food, the idea of genetic technology is as prevalent now as it was in the late 80's and 90's when cloning brought its first star: Dolly the sheep. Now, we can not only clone, we create entire organs. Fully human hearts that can be inserted into heart transplant patients. Because the technology itself is able to transcend decades this way, stories like Jurassic Park and Star Wars are able to prevent themselves from becoming dated. In 1977 technology like holograms, laser weaponry, cybernetic limbs, and hover crafts were the stuff of good science fiction writing. Now, they're technology we have readily available! So, because this technology is still believable, because we have this technology now, there's not need to modernize a movie that was already modern 20 or 30 years ago.
     
  25. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    Sep 20, 2002
    I agree with you, Dinos4Ever - which is why I'm insisting that Star Wars is a masterpiece. Jedi with a TARDIS doesn't seem to agree that Star Wars is timeless though.