David Brin's commentary on AOTC and what it reveals...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kiki-Gonn, Sep 19, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Why? Because people take him seriously.
  2. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    And they don't take GL seriously?

    Tony Blair is a SW fan and people take HIM seriously.
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    I don't see any problem with people taking Lucas seriously.
  4. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Its funny, these critics are full of hatred for Lucas and yet everyone and their pet dog can't wait to write their own review of the film, all in the name of "Star Wars". They rip the film apart but at the same time cash in on the free advertising exposure they get, "did you notice I am a scientist and my books are in all good stores now? . Anyway, back to Star Wars, boy did it suck". Do these same people write reviews of Spiderman or Scooby Doo?
  5. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    ...so, what is more important about this guys' opinion than the rest of ours? Oh, he's a SCI-FI author? Okay. That means he's totally valid and right. ;)
  6. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    It is just so astouding that he can be so off. He can have his opinions, but to nochalantly accuse Lucas of adding female Jedi to AOTC after not having any in TPM is so downright wrong it suprises me someone allows him to host articles on their site.
  7. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    This D Brin acts like everything he is saying is this big "revelation", except his review is not as thought provoking or well thought out as the posts on these message boards.
  8. newbie4000 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
    ahahah that article was hilarious, he brought up a number of interesting points.

    But whats even funnier is the gusher reaction.
    Suggesting that Brin is Jealous.. I mean camon...


  9. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Tony Blair is a SW fan?
  10. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
  11. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    Cool. I wonder if George W. Bush is too?
  12. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    SWfan2002: I doubt it.
  13. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    David Brin is an excellent SF author, one of the best of the last 20 years. He's won a few Hugo's(People's Choice)and Nebula's(Peers)for his Uplift series of which Startide Rising is the best, IMHO.

    That aside, Gome points out some of his amazing lapses in SW knowledge.

    First film to have a twist in the series. What? Empire had a pretty big twist I'd say.

    His comments about The Federation too. Does Trek OWN that term?

    He then also claims Lucas bowed to pressure to put more diversity in the SW Universe. How the hell would he know?

    Brin's problem is he clearly understands literature, but not film.

    SW is a fast-paced, action-adventure film series with many chracters that are plot-centered.

    He needs to keep writing books and not giving reviews of movies. It's clearly not where his strength is.



  14. Gwas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2000
    star 2
    "Is George W. Bush a Star Wars fan?"

    Dunno, but his dad was :p


    EDIT: Nice one Shane. You may well bash, but you're pretty fair with it.

    Spread the word. Fair is good.
  15. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    I mainly had a problem with what he said about TPM and ROTJ. I really couldnt understand anything he was trying to say about AOTC.

    First, he complained that it would be reasonable for him to have a rich person buy his mother back from him. That is a very nitpicky complaint.

    Second, he then complained that ROTJ is trying to tell us that if we get mad at evil, we will become evil. "So all the people who got mad at the Nazi party joined the Nazis, right?" This is the problem with bashers. THey interpret these messages in SW way too literally. That is why they percieve them as being inferior. Let me give this gentleman an example of what Lucas is trying to say. Let us say that a person is using malicous intent and spreading rumors about Anakin Skywalker around a college campus. They are saying that he is gay when he is really not. Anakin percieves this as being evil. Therefore Anakin kills the man in a very gruesome way, because he sees this as the only way in which he can gain justice. He is enraged with hatred.

    Anakin feels he is justified, so when the cops try to arrest him, he kills them b/c they are trying to take his freedom away, all because he got mad at evil and wanted to obtain justice. Finally, Anakin is arrested and sentenced to Court. Anakin kills the judge and escapes. Anakin is now on the Most Wanted List. He has killed many people who were merely trying to enforce the law. He is mad that the U.S. is trying to take his freedom away, so now he decides to assassinate the President of the United States.s He succeeds. Now that everyone in the U.S. hates Anakin, he joins international terrorists in a plot to nuke American cities. They succeed, and it is b/c of Anakin's expertise. I think a reasonable person would suspect that Anakin is "evil". And this all originated b/c he got mad at "evil". The way this theme is presented in SW is the mythy part, and you cant take it too literally.

    Third, his complaint about TPM having no true hero has no merit. Who says that there has to be only one hero? Who says that the hero can't die at the end of the movie? Who says that they have to appear before 1/3 into the movie? (By the way, he appeared just a tad sooner than 1/4 into the movie, not 1/3.) TPM is 2 hours and 15 minutes, and he appears about 30 minutes into the movie.

    Fourth, does anybody know what the hell he is talking about having Anakin and Obiwant conspiring against Yoda and the Emporer in episode 3?




  16. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
  17. guittarjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    After reading David Brin's article it's clear to me that this guy is some kind of Trekky who truly does not understand the essence of Star Wars. His idea of having Obi-wan and Vader plotting against the Emperor in the OT is not only preposterous,it would completely ruin the menace of Vader's character. Has David Brin even scene these movies? Why would Obi-wan allow his so-called partner to kill him in ANH? It's no wonder why I've never heard of David Brin before.
  18. Vonn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2000
    star 4
    David Brin's critique is quite ignorant of the whole saga, and he clearly did not understand certain plot points.

    1) David Brin criticizes how Anakin is just SUDDENLY concerned for his mother.

    My response: David Brin must have missed the part where Cliegg Lars says that Anakin's mother was attacked about a month ago. That's why Anakin is suddenly concerned for his mother.

    2) David Brin's "saga saving" ending is the worst plothole I have EVER read!

    My reasoning: To suggest that Anakin and Obi-wan were conspiring to bring down the Emperor and Yoda is just plain hogwash. To back up his suggestion, he says that Anakin was secretly protecting Luke in the Death Star trench run. NEWS FLASH David Brin: How would you explain Darth Vader suddenly going, "I have you now!" Hardly something a father would say TO HIMSELF if he were trying to protect his son.

    David Brin also seems to constantly berate Lucas' Jedi religion because of its emphasis on purging itself of attachments.

    My response: David Brin is ignorant that Jedi is not a religion. The Jedi are policemen (peacekeepers) and the force is their religion. The whole Jedi mantra about attachments and all are just the JEDI CODE! It is not the rules of religion, it is code of conduct and operations for Jedi Order, but it is not the rule of religion. David Brin also seems to have conveniently ignored Yoda's line where he suggested that the Jedi are becoming arrogant and the code doesn't seem to be working. Notice how Qui-gon didn't follow the code? Notice how Anakin isn't following the code? Lucas is making a statement at how the code keeps getting broken or perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with the code that prevents it from working. David Brin doesn't even mention this possibility.

    It is unprofessional for a writer to publicly criticize another when their critique itself is imperfect. The reason why we say David Brin is jealous is because Brin's argument is fundamentally flawed (not to mention poorly written and argued). If an author who writes a critique cannot write it to the fullest of their craft without showing the same mistakes they are criticizing, it not only looks hypocritical, but it also appears to be "sour grapes." Hence, this is where the jealousy accusations emanate.

    David Brin also doesn't show a full knowledge of the subject matter which he is critiquing (he may know a little about Campbell, but he obviously hasn't seen Empire or Return of the Jedi enough to understand the concepts and plotlines). It is like myself writing a review for a ballet, though knowing nothing about ballet and its history.
  19. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    Boy you said it Guittarjedi, come on, we don't have to sit here and listen to this.
  20. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I've never heard of David Brin before this article.

    And I doubt I'll remember his name tomarrow.
  21. Only_2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 3
    Mr. Brin's commentary makes him sound like a Sci-fi contemporary who feels he has to lash out at Lucas for making him feel like a subordinate so that he may make himself appear like a superior Sci-Fi supergeek.

    Why exactly did he feel it necessary to write a commentary on one of his peers work? Is it because the sheer magnitude of Lucas makes him feel as if his work is insignificant? Maybe that's because it is, to the general public.

    I've never heard of him before this article. Admittedly I'm not a Sci-Fi novel fan. I read spy novels and detective stories mostly, like Robert Parker and Ian Flemming. But one thing is for sure, I will never read any of his work now, as his unreasoned attempt to critique Lucas has left a really bad taste in my mouth. Kinda like day-old broccoli. Being a mudslinging bitch isn't going to sell your books, it might get your agent to drop you though. Smart thinking.

    Mr. Brin: leave the poorly reasoned overly critical thought and writing to failed writers who've become "professional critics" before you ruin your own career.
  22. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    In previous rants he has made it clear that it bothers him that "garbage" like the SW saga is popular while "real" science fiction like the Postman (a film based on his book of the sama naem) isn't.

  23. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    The thing is, GL never ever said that SW is sci-fi!
  24. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Personally, I rented The Postman on video a few years ago. I was bored to death halfway through it. I can't speak for everyone of course, but Brin must enjoy a dull sci-fi melo-drama, over a high energy fantasy film, which seems a little odd to me.

    Oh well, it's not like it matters what his opinion is of SW. Hardly anyone here has ever heard of this guy before I bet. Why should an unknown's opinions matter greatly?
  25. DARTH-MUGATU Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    The guy bashes the movie yet can't stop talking about it (insert Kevin Smith pun). I'm sure GL isn't losing sleep over it. No reason why we should.
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