David Brin's commentary on AOTC and what it reveals...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kiki-Gonn, Sep 19, 2002.

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  1. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    He first wrote this article called "Star Wars despots vs. Star Trek populists." Then he wrote this article called "What's wrong (and right) about The Phantom Menace". After myself and several hundred other SW fans emailed him to point out several of his weaker grasps about the points he was lambasting Lucas for. One of the things I took issue with was his confusion as to why Darth Sidious would want Maul to kill Amidala, when in the film, Sidious commands Maul to bring her back so she could sign the treaty, not kill her. I am sure if you read these articles yourself you will understand why so many of us wrote to him. Then he did this follow up article, and, well read it for yourself. It's called "An Addendum To David Brin's Critique of The Star Wars Universe Written In Response To Several Hundred Emails."

    Personally, I have yet to see any redeeming qualities about the guy.
  2. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Here is what I wrote him. Might not have been good. I was just blindly ranting

    Really? As opposed to your brilliantly argued succing posts.

    You have made a bigger spectacle of yourself than the Smithsonian.
  3. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    HA HA HA! That reply was hilarious. David Brin is my hero for the day.

    Hold on a sec, where's another place where logical discourse and rational criticism is zealously attacked with ad hominem insults and character attacks? I sense something...
  4. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Well, your rant could have been a little better worded. At the same time, it is clearly obvious that Brin has only paid minimal attention to Star Wars over the years, just enough to understand the basics (although I'm being generous giving him that much credit) without bothering to dig any deeper. I guess whenever his inbox starts to a feel lonely he fires off another poorly constructed rant against Lucas and then warms himself in the ensuing flames.

    I thought of emailing the guy, but the smugness evident in his article (and his reply to Ekenobi) is enough to make me realize that any such corrospondence would be a waste of time.
  5. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Nothing could more foolish than the crap Brin spouts about SW.

    Edit: Or could it? I have never actually seen noted "bashers" take his side before. Most have been so shocked by his utter lack of basic understanding of what goes on in the SW universe that they know they wouldn't be able to back him up without ruining their own credibility.

    Bold move guys.
  6. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Geez thanks AL. Thought we were becoming friends. And I am sure your posts are listed under the "Ten Commandments" Please.
  7. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Do you have any earthly idea how much time, research, and love I put into my articles on Star Wars, compared to this ... I don't even know what it is. Oh, mercy. I wouldn't even know how to reply to that ...

    Why oh why does this man insist on continuing to write about Star Wars? It's so horrible, so uninformed, so illiterate, it just gives me a headache to even read it.


    I'm glad you're here to tell us these things. Chewie, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive.
  8. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    Tokyo, you are so not Han.
  9. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    Please don't state your opinions as if they were fact.
  10. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Another thing about Brin, he asks the questions when it is blindingly clear he has no interest in the answers. It seems he is more interested in listening to himself pontificate than he is in finding the solution to the problems he poses. He's like a two-year-old constantly asking "But why?" without ever waiting for the answer.

    TokyoXtreme: If you have all the answers then why have you been conspicuously absent from Jabbadabbado's excellent and thought provoking thread titled With AOTC/TPM Lucas pulls the rug out from under our expectations?
  11. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Well, your rant could have been a little better worded.

    yes it could have been but it is hard for me to write what I am feeling. Ruashe dand eeverything. i was half way out the door when i was writing this. Of course I thought of better things later. Oh well.
  12. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
  13. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    Now you've done it Durwood. That beautiful thread is now going to be infected and ruined for sure. :(
  14. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    That beautiful thread is now going to be infected and ruined for sure.

    I certainly hope that our friend has more maturity than that.
  15. The_Abstract Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 4
    I wasn't going to critique this guy anymore, but I think he's having trouble separating fantasy from reality.

    What do Lucas's political ideas have to do with Star Wars anyway?

    It's obvious in the context of his films that dictatorships, like the one we see in the OT, are BAD.

    The Emperor wears black robes, he cackles, his face his withered away. On one level he could be the most stereotypical villian ever, but Ian McDiarmid's performance takes it to another level.

    Doesn't he get tossed down the reactor shaft thus ENDING the EMPIRE.

    It's obvious he has typical basher syndrome. He even used "ad hominem" in his first paragraph. What a joke! He must of been taking notes from this board for the last few months.

    Too bad he forgot to read the threads that actually expound on Lucas's movies and are forums of rational debate and discussion.

    As Durwood said, this guy must get lonely and needs to warm himself on the flames of Star Wars fans.


  16. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    "I certainly hope that our friend has more maturity than that. "


    We can only hope
  17. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    TokyoXtreme: If you have all the answers then why have you been conspicuously absent from Jabbadabbado's excellent and thought provoking thread titled With AOTC/TPM Lucas pulls the rug out from under our expectations?

    Durwood, it may not surprise you to discover that I am not particularly interested in discussing the plot elements of AOTC. Maybe because I did not find the film particularly interesting.

    Hey everybody, it may surprise you to know that there are people who are familiar with the terminology of argument, and know enough to call "ad hominem" when they see one. This forum has no shortage of them, that's for sure.
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I did not find Attack Of The Clones particularly interesting.

    So tell me again why you visit these forums?
  19. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    So tell me again why you visit these forums?

    There are many threads in this forum that are not directly related to the plot elements of AOTC. Those are the threads that you will find my posts in.
  20. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I still find it odd that you devote so much time to a movie that you admittedly have no interest in.
  21. TokyoXtreme Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2001
    star 4
    I still find it odd that you devote so much time to a movie that you admittedly have no interest in.

    I'm interested in several aspects of the movie, but not the plot.
  22. Kiki-Gonn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 26, 2001
    star 6
    <checking back in>
    Wow, that response from Brin was something else.
    Could he be any more smug?

    So, he thought The Postman was an excellent movie? That's all I need to know about his cinematic judging capabilities.

    BTW, long before he ever bashed SW I read one of his books. Thought it was pretty good but not good enough to ever pick one up again.
    Maybe he should work on his own masterful storytelling powers instead of bashing Lucas'?
  23. JediHeretic47 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 2002
    star 1
    I'm sure personal attacks are what this guy is after. I'm sure he prints them all out so he can wave them around and say, "Look at what kind of fanatics these people are!" Just the kind of guy he is.

    Personally, I find him pretty unprofessional. Myself and the editors over at Space.com were sort of scratching our heads to figure out exactly how he even managed to get his initial articles over at Salon published. But they seem to be willing to print anything, just so long as it has a good enough anti-Lucas bias.

    Lucas has no contempt for you or any of the rest of us in this country. That's ridiculous. He's a warm, compassionate fellow that has the best interest of everyone at stake. You can just look at him and see it in his eyes. The (subtle) point he was trying to make was about benevolent dictatorships. Not evil ones that subvert the people, but like the ones Anakin was talking about. The ones that work for the people instead of against them, regardless of whether or not they are directly accountable to them. But subtlety seems to be lost on Brin.

    Anyway, all I can say is, he's completely distorting Lucas, Campbell, Romanticism, Eastern philosophy, and pretty much anything else he can get his hands on. These are all topics I have invested a great deal of time in, and he's just running around like a chicken with his head cut off, babbling nonsense.

    And no, I'm not just saying that because I'm a Star Wars fan.
  24. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    You are right Durwood, this is a SW fanboard and if you don't like the movies then you really shouldnt be here. However, if you are an old skool SW fan, but don't like the prequels then do you not think that it can be a little frustrating for people like Tokyoxtreme, who see the new SW films as shoddily, carelessly made? I mean, I was watching the TPM documentary today and I had to turn it off because I actually felt pissed at what a complete waste of time that film is. GL has sent his value as a director to ZERO and dragged SW down with it. So maybe Tokyoxtreme just wants answers as to why the PT is lacking in quality when compared with the OT? Then again, he may just hate SW, but I don't think he does, he has a very clear and deep knowledge of the older films. Lets face it, AOTC doesnt have much to talk about, the story is paper thin, theres nothing much to talk about. The only thing I can think of to talk about, is how Lucas can possibly get out of this mess with Episode III. Anyway, this Brin is still a tosser for saying those things about SW when he makes such glaring mistakes in his post; if you are going to discuss something in such detail, at least do your research first!
  25. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Lets face it, AOTC doesnt have much to talk about, the story is paper thin, theres nothing much to talk about.

    Have you looked at the link to Jabba's thread I posted on the previous page? It seems that there is a great deal to talk about!
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