Lit Dawn of the Jedi: Force War #5 (of 5)

Revan time-traveled to 30 ABY, where he killed Jacen and assumed his name, appearance, and voice.

 

And became a blithering idiot who suspected his cape of conspiracy!

 

I always love a Supernatural gif.

Carry on, my wayward son.

 

I wonder how GL feels about the Je'daii. Does he imagine there being time when such an organization existed or does he feel that the Jedi just used the light side until the Sith popped up one day?

 

How do you feel anything about something which you are oblivious to?

 

Usually:

 

I'm gonna do another post in this thread at a later date about my thoughts on this issue, but first I just want to say I'm incredibly disappointed that after reading through the conversation in this thread it seems people disliked or hated this issue and the reasons don't seem to make any sense to me.

First, I never saw Xesh as a generic angst-filled dark sider. He is so much more complex than that. I've never read about a character that didn't know there was any other aspect to the Force than the dark side, and getting to see things from his perspective when he is first exposed and attracted to the "light" side and then learns what it is is really unique. While with many characters I would have found it far beyond my ability to suspend disbelief that he would be recaptured by a former master and actually go back to the dark side after being tortured, from the perspective of Xesh I can easily accept this. While the Je'daii have a binary outlook on the Force in the sense that they're all about balancing dark and light, Xesh has a different kind of binary outlook on the Force where he is used to only using the dark side. (That, of course, and all the memories of the terrible things he'd done coming back to him, making him question his own identity.) Then, yes, they made it obviously predictable that Shae Koda would use the Tau thing to bring him back at the end, but I have a great appreciation for such a unique psychological journey to end with a tried-and-true Star Wars message that connects back to the films: everyone does bad things but everyone also ultimately can make the choice to stay on that path or not. So I have a really hard time understanding the complaint of Xesh as a generic angst-filled dark sider when he's the only character I know of who has an arc that goes like that.

I think the Tho Yors present a very intriguing mystery, and though I was particularly psyched about this series because of when it takes place, I was never expecting it to fully divulge all the secrets of Jedi lore. The presentation of the Tho Yor - speculation on which really deserves its own thread because of the myriad of possibilities and subtle hints - seems exactly in line with Star Wars tradition. We are presented with something mysterious and inexplicable that is partially explained but also leaves much up to the imagination, particularly the origin story. That seems exactly like how the Force is used in the films. If you go by the films alone you are really left with as many questions as answers about the Force. I'm still not sure what exactly bringing balance to the Force means regarding the Chosen One prophecy. Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely would have loved to get more into the Tho Yor secrets, but I was never expecting it, so I wasn't terribly disappointed to not get it. I don't get the problems people have with Tasha's ending. I think the obvious explanation is charging up the Tho Yor to be used as a weapon required a lot of power, like Rakatan technology it was powered by the Force, and it requires so much Force power to get going that it completely drains the person it's getting the Force power from of midichlorians so they die.

I really, really do not get the complaint that the main Predor seemed somehow more nuanced in early issues and then turned to a more generic bad guy by the end. Can anyone actually give an example of him doing something that isn't completely self-serving?? This was a bizarre one. The Rakata are set up as rather generic do-no-good bad guys all the way since KOTOR.

Next point is more a matter of taste, but I also disagree with the point that not having more main character deaths is somehow disappointing. Daegen Lok was probably my favorite character and I was really upset when I thought he died. The way they set him up going into the future at the end was perfect. No one is taking away his Forcesaber, and while we learn apparently the first time he agreed to go to Bogan, he will never agree to it again. And he has loyal followers. But I think if you want a good example of why killing main characters just for the sake of killing main characters is dumb, just watch the Firefly film. There are main characters biting the bullet for the dumbest, least satisfying reasons, it is incredibly stupid. If deaths were well written then okay, but I don't need main character deaths just for the sake of main character deaths. I find that really cheap. There isn't a whole lot of that in Star Wars traditionally, I would add.

Also apparently many people were anticipating this would directly connect with some other aspects of EU that didn't turn out to be the case. I can understand being disappointed that that didn't happen, but to say the story was bad because it went in a direction other than that specific expectation is a pretty weak criticism in my opinion.

I can only assume the person who said the different structures of Tython weren't explored never read Prisoner of Bogan because they obviously are.

 

I found your post very interesting, Tarkas. It makes me curious of a comic which I haven't been since Dark Empire and Darklighter. Well done. However, I despise some here's insistence that X characters are out and out Black or bad guys. Those that choose to have such view have fun but I much prefer nuance on both sides. A misguided character is no less worthy of depth and being done well than a supposed 'hero'.

 

Hmm, Darklighter eh? Your liking for it wouldn't have anything with a certain Grand Moff featuring in it in a very chilling sequence?

 

Actually, no. I bought the Darklighter hardback solely because I liked Garrick's Biggs. I bought it unseen I had no idea Grand Moff was in it before reading it. Biggs used to be my fave SW character.

 

Hardback? Oh yeah, they did it as that series of 12 select stories years back, nice set of editions.

Darklighter is where Wheatley acquired his speed reputation, it became a legendary read in monthlies! Quite a few of us at the time didn't mind because when it turned up? Damn, it was good!

 

Agreed. I was impressed too. I don't lightly tread to comics but I liked Darklighter. Nice to see a character many forget get a decent story.

 

I'm concentrating on these two points since I believe if I spoke about the other stuff before, I did in a way that wasn't what you're referring to.

First - well, yes, the "only knows the Dark Side" thing is kind of unique, although I couldn't say for sure that it hasn't been done before. Mainly, the actual difference isn't all that big for me. There's a few lines that effectively say "I never knew there was a Light Side!", but for me, Xesh develops like any guy who grew up on the Dark Side (and was told about the Light Side before we get to know him) would. Starkiller is a pretty close match, for example. And that's just one angle of the concept; what's more important is that Xesh looks and feels pretty similar to Quinlan Vos and Cade Skywalker to me. He's grouchy, he's questionable, but at the same time we are supposed to root for him (because of his roguish charm?). He's a constant frown; he's understandably troubled because of all the torture in his life; but he's nothing new for me. The detail that he never knew the Light Side doesn't inform his character arc; it isn't really really really hard if not impossible for him to adapt to the Je'daii lifestyle. It's a good SW message that love can pull you around, but in this case, the unique factor of Xesh would have been that love would have felt so alien to him that all kinds of messed up stuff would have happened, and thinking about it this would probably have worked better with a kind of "messed up" ending in which the good side wins him over, but at a really high price. Not a honeymoon geocaching trip. All in all, for me and my experience while reading the comic, his 'unique background' boils down to something like his 'unique facial tattoo'. It's there, but it doesn't really change what I read.

And while we're talking about the ending - they were obviously going for the great gamechanger finale when they fried Tasha without neccissity. That ritual (or whatever) could have easily just exhausted her. Or have been observed by her. But no, she has to sacrifice herself and die, which is fine if you want the huge gamechanger finale. Then there's three other instances in which characters could die, and all the punches are pulled. Sith Boy could have killed his nemesis to give a clear "too far on the dark side" impression, but he's okay I guess, so it's cool if one of our original three main characters just fizzles out. Lok gets stabbed through the heart, which is a pretty hard thing to survive, but even if we roll along, that's too little payoff for his arc. He survives to probably do more some other time - why? Why not have him go back to his life-defining chasm moment and die there to show that he chose badly, that he chose wanting to be the aggressive dark-side hero but actually fails miserably in doing so? And with Shae, the scene is written so that you think she's dead, and Xesh staying true to her course of love and not going all revenge-bonkers would mean so much more if she doesn't just stand up again on the next page. Did we need a lot of deaths? No. But we needed a lot of status quo changes, and the story went for status quo changes with Tasha's death, the Tho Yor reveal and the end of the Predor (if not the entire Rakata) menace. Having the characters survive against probability and against plausible story arc development is just as bad as pointless character deaths in such a situation.

And I agree on Serenity; there's a very definitive explanation why Joss Whedon did what he did at the end, and while I understand what his thought process was ("everyone could die! suspense!"), it simply doesn't work for the kind of show Firefly was, especially if you don't follow up on your threat; and he also chose wrong in my eyes since he only took the biggest shock along with "the most useless/the most fulfilled" character at that point and didn't go for a character who could actually have had a character moment by sacrificing himself. But Whedon might not want character moments but 'realistic' we're-all-mortal-this-is-all-senseless moments, I don't know enough about his actual thought processes, but he seems to be fond of deconstructing tropes superficially (like his answer to "SW being like a western in space" being "an actual western in space").

And see, in a comic book in which no other good guy dies, Tasha's death is unnecessary; it feels as if "the actress" wanted to leave the show or something.

 

Wait, Wheatley used to do his work fast enough for monthlies!?!

 

You might want to check up on the Darklighter release schedule.

 

Heh, you two both know the truth - you've been around long enough!

 

Ah, so he was like that back then too? I only started following monthlies around Legacy and KotOR's first year, then branched out into the rest of Dark Horse's series. I did keep track of Dark Times' pace, but oh well, the art was always worth the wait.

I wish I had picked up more of those anniversary editions back when they came out. As huh, turns out Dark Horse didn't get to hold onto the license long enough for another big anniversary.

This is just partial speculation/random guessing, but Whedon also likes to, how to put it, tug on the heartstrings? Things are going great, or at least decently, and then boom, everything's ruined and the characters have to spend most of a season trying to at least cope with the grief. Buffy and Angel were full of moments like this. Its why I'm not really the biggest fan of his. If Firefly hadn't ended so soon, more characters probably would have died sad deaths, but instead those deaths were reassigned to the movie (Note- I have no idea what ideas Whedon originally had for the series, whether they made it into the movie or some comic or whatever, just speculating based on how his series tend to develop).

If you liked Xesh's arc, good for you, its partially a matter of taste, as I never even cared about Quinlan Vos that much either. As Grey said, after Quinlan, Cade and now Xesh, it kind of starts feelings repetitive. Not everything is the same, of course, but there are many similarities, and it feels like a waste when there were so many other potential plots to follow up on. I don't think character deaths are required for that much drama or finales, but Tasha's death just felt contrived- not like we ever get any answers about the tho yors. If they stay mysterious, fine, but the ending just felt... odd. It ends the war, but most of that war was off-screen, and this isn't an exact figure, but sure felt like half the miniseries was devoted to Xesh and Shae rather than the actual war. If you love their romance, fine, it worked out great for you, and that's fine, but meh, found it boring. I wish there had been less Shae page time and more of Sek'nos and Tasha, but oh well.

I sometimes wonder if its just part of the Ostrander/Duursema writing style, as often Cade seemed like the... least developed character of Legacy, despite having the most page time (as the lead character). "I'm not a Jedi!" literally became a running joke until he got tired of saying it, while all around him everyone else was moving, fighting, growing, while Cade only came around at the very end.

 

Grey1 just wanted to send you a belated thank you for your thoughtful response to my post. Xesh definitely had a brooding quality to him which certainly prevented him from being the character you always look forward to seeing like Han Solo. I know of Quinlan Vos and I have a big chunk of the first Legacy run so I'm somewhat familiar with Cade Skywalker, but I don't know enough about their overall character arcs in the comics to even compare to Xesh over the 15 issues of Dawn of the Jedi we got. The closest thing I could relate that to would be the whiny teen brooding of Anakin Skywalker in Ep. II. So for me it wasn't something that already felt overdone in Star Wars. Still, like I said I think not even knowing that any other aspect of the Force besides the dark side exists is very unique, even if some other characters went through similar things while changing Force affiliation who already knew that there were other aspects to it, like I said in my post above it is much more psychologically believable for someone to go through those motions if they were in Xesh's situation in my opinion.

I think most of your questions about other possible character deaths are perfectly valid, but I also think the question why should they die is just as valid as why shouldn't they die. The only one I really don't agree with you about was Sek'nos because I don't think him having some rival to kill really diminished his role as part of the cast in the overall DotJ saga. OU I suspect the reason they left most of the characters alive was the hope the story would later be picked back up. However, I have to say I think the fact that you seem to feel so strongly that the one person who died shouldn't have and a lot of the main characters who didn't die should have seems contradictory unless you have character-specific reasons.

 

Oh, I think it's perfectly valid that people like something based on their context, and seeing how you didn't consecutively read all three big Ostrander/Duurseema series, I can see where you're coming from. A few of my points might not have come across clearly, though.

Especially what I said about character deaths. I don't have a "Tasha (or what's her name) must live" agenda. I could get behind a big finale story that changes everything up and kills and destroys a lot in order to drive the point home that the series simply can't go on like before. But I can also get behind a series that aims for a more happy ending and kills nobody, because since we're investing emotions into the characters (something I didn't really get around to in DOTJ, but anyway), why not be rewarded for that?

The point I'm trying to make is that they're doing both in this finale, and that it doesn't work well in combination. The issue is setting the tone by "changing everything" about the Force pyramids and the seer character. Then it puts nearly all the other characters into situations that could really change them, as well - make them turn to the dark side properly (Sith boy), kill them off (red-haired girl - by the way, while that would make her a 'woman in a refrigerator', isn't she a 'woman in a refrigerator with the door open' right now?), make them fail at the end of their story arc (dark side guy, which would have been a nice mirror for evil alien guy failing). They could even turn Xesh properly and make red-haired girl the surprise hero by making her remove Xesh. But all of those characters go back to their status quo, even against incredible odds (stabbed through the heart). Now, writing one character out in a change-for-change's-sake mentality and then playing happily ever after with every other character doesn't really work for me.

I can see why they did it - obviously everyone else was set up for future stories while the seer's death was a token demonstration that the story arc was important. I think token death is a bit too cliché, especially if you didn't have the time to build the character up properly - the seer had been reduced to wallpaper anyway. She had a function in the plot, but she hadn't been an important character. And seeing how this was shaping up to be the final issue (they obviously sped up the Force War arc to get some kind of ending going), I would either have removed the cliché death or toned down the outrageousness of all other characters not really changing all that much. I don't find it particularly balanced right now. But again, whether they had just blown up Tython completely or made a big wedding with everyone finding their significant other in the end, I wasn't attached to any special character's fate in this.

 

Well, in order to care about the characters, you need to have characters, and only Daegon Lok really qualifies in this series. Maybe Sek'nos if you stretch.

 

I haven't read volume 3 so I can't comment on the quality. But I remember stradley saying that he wanted to make DOTJ an ongoing but Duursema and Ostrander didn't want to. Or Duursema didn't/couldn't pump out the work fast enough for a monthly. (I don't blame her)

But Legacy I had different artists for various arcs. Imagine if we had gotten the same thing from DOTJ? They should have made Duursema do some art, but then both Ostrander and Duursema do all the stories, with different artists taking over for Duursema for some cases.

Like with Legacy II. I believe the art switches back from Gabriel Hardman to Brian Albert Thies every other Volume, why not do that for DOTJ?

It saddens me that Dark Horse shifted to this "mini-series" format. 2006-2010 was when Star Wars comics was "cool" for me. It looked so bright and I was actively looking forward to what Kotor and Legacy would throw us.

The shift to the mini series has given us some occasional gems, but they never last too long. I loved the Boba Fett Blood Ties, but that was cancelled. I loved Agent of the Empire, but that was cancelled.

At least with an ongoing Dark Horse could have gotten some mileage out of these stories instead of having them cancelled so fast.

 

You can say that again.

I only started buying monthly comics in 2006 specifically because I wanted to follow Legacy and KOTOR as they came out. Over the last couple of years, however, I've slowly drifted back to just waiting for trades-- I've felt no pressure to "keep up" with the story when it's just a one-off mini-series-- so when it came to "sales numbers" they lost mine whenever people cited raw statistics, as my purchase wouldn't register until many months later.

 

Essentially nothing they've put out since then has ever reached that creative high. I mean the War arcs of Legacy and Kotor were nice but they were either ending the series or giving another standalone adventure.

I'm sure they could have kept ongoings while also giving us stuff like Crimson Empire III,Blood Ties, Invasion,etc.

Wasn't the point of the mini-series to try and cycle in more SW comics? Well If that's the case I must call it a failure.

We got too many Darth Vader stories. Too many stories treading the dead zone that is the time between ANH and ESB (Star Wood, Rebel Heist). Tie-ins that aren't very impressive (The Old Republic),

It wasn't till the return of ongoings that we got solace in Legacy II. But even that might have been too late. If it had started in January instead of March we could have gotten at least 20 issues from Legacy II instead of 18.

Actually if they really wanted to, they could have pushed an extra issue or two for Legacy II. I wonder if Dark Horse is just trying to have a lackluster final year or if Disney is tying their hands as to how much they can release.

I don't mean to be so hard on Dark Horse, but they did end their biggest and most popular SW series before their time was done. Unless it was orders from Lucasfilm to make room for TOR tie ins.

Regardless, I'll treasure their stories.