Dead Forums=spam

Discussion in 'FanForce Communications' started by farraday, Nov 30, 2003.

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  1. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I can't be the only one who sees this is true. If you leave a forum up that's dead, someone is going to post in it. Considering that someone is almost certainly not going to be from the place, all you have is spam.

    So try and explain to me how keeping a dead forum up just so you can tell people not to post spam in it is somehow worth your time and the bandwidth?

    And no, bandwidth isn't a crucial issue, but that doesn't mean you have to waste it lest it become an issue.
  2. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Generally these forums will be kept if people (either in public or privately) have expressed to the RSA that there is still interest in them.

    Furthermore, why should we have to delete forums because people choose to break the rules in there? The fact that they exist does not mean people should spam in them - why not blame the people spamming, not the moderators looking after them?

    That's a slightly backwards logic there.
  3. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Any interest is not automatically compleing if the interest is outweighed by the forums interest of not having forums fileld with spam.

    Furthermore, the very fact the forum is overun with spam is a clear indication there is no local interest in it.

    The forums are, as I am told, to be used as online notice boards, social clubs, and meeting places for people in an area. Whiel this doens't preclude non members from posting, when a forum is filled with only non memebrs and outsiders it is not fullfilling it's function and is therefore dead.

    Keeping a forum that is only being used for spamming just because someone says they want to is simply bad management.
  4. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Any interest is not automatically compleing if the interest is outweighed by the forums interest of not having forums fileld with spam.

    I disagree. The interest is more than enough to keep the board there. The people spamming it are in the wrong. Why should we have to get rid of something that's wanted or looks like it will be wanted by the right people in the future because people can't control where they post?

    Furthermore, the very fact the forum is overun with spam is a clear indication there is no local interest in it.

    No. In most of the cases I've seen the forum is overrun with spam because different groups on the JC plan trolling and spamming there beforehand.

    The forums are, as I am told, to be used as online notice boards, social clubs, and meeting places for people in an area. Whiel this doens't preclude non members from posting, when a forum is filled with only non memebrs and outsiders it is not fullfilling it's function and is therefore dead.

    Not necessarily. How are we supposed to get more people interested in making it a notice board and social club if it's not there for them to use?

    Keeping a forum that is only being used for spamming just because someone says they want to is simply bad management.

    Nup. Keeping it there because someone says they want it and are trying to get the interest to have it used is the whole basis in starting FF chapters - every official FF chapter started off that way.

    But sure, let's try it another way. Let's make the chapter become official before we give them a board, making them co-ordinate all meetings offsite until they have enough meets and members. Can someone tell me the point of that again, as we want people to be enjoying our boards and services as this is the point of having them here.
  5. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Well Shara, lets pick FF china since that would be one you'd be msot familiar with.

    Do you actualyl think there has been any progress made toward people who actually live in china getting togeather and starting a Fan force chapter?

    Any at all? Lets ignore the fact almost everyone who has posted there doesn't even live inside China. That at best it has been a place for chinese expatriots and immigrants to talk.

    It's been in existence for over a year, what progress has been made?

    Surely you need something more then non locals posting to justify the existence of a board!

    What justifies it?
  6. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Fanforce China, huh? The one that actually DOES have Chinese people and people interested in a China chapter posting there when they can? And who would be more than happy to transfer fully back over from their own board as soon as the problems with the language barrier are overcome?
  7. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    That's wonderful.

    I really do mean that, it's nice to see, but considering it's just a place for spam until zerosleep gets to the proper coding that isn't worth much is it?

    I dare say if you deleted every post by every poster in ther who didn't live in our routinely visit China you wouldn't have enough posts to fill a thimble.

    And speaking of your forums where you've had to post don't spam recently, what about South Africa?

    You have only 6 forums and four of them are routinely spammed to a greater or lesser degree. Conicendentally those are the same ones that don't have a local presence routinely posting.

    It is, as I said, bad management to waste your time repeatedly dealing with spamming because one person who rarely posts says they might want a board.
  8. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    No, I still disagree with that. After all, do you blame the police for the people who graffity buildings? Do you tell the police to tear down the building to prevent the vandalism?

    No. You target the people responsible until they finally realise they're not supposed to be doing what they're doing.

    Either way, I'm not punishing the chapters because some people can't get it through their heads that they're not to spam.

    Edit: Oh, and for the record, I RSA for 13 boards, and take on GSA stuff for the rest of them as needed. ;)
  9. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    When you have a rundown building filled with criminals and drug addicts that's covere din graffitti, you can throw them out and clean it up all you want, but if no one wants to lvie there you're still out of luck.

    This isn't a matter of "OMG someone spammed the forum lets delete it" it's the fact there's no one who posts in that forum other then the spam.

    What does it take to get you to realize a forum isn't neccesary? How many times do you have to tell people to stop spamming a forum before you realize the only ones in it are the spammers?

    Edit// That would certainly explain how you could ignore the individual Asian forums except for periodic warnings to stop spamming.
  10. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    [face_laugh]

    And you know how many times a day I check on each of the boards now, do you? Cool, now tell me the winning lotto numbers for next week.

    So tell me, farraday...what is the reason for your sheer determination to have your way here? What really bothers you about having these boards here?
  11. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    They're useless and filled with spam.

    And I'm judging that by the fact in the last year you've posted exactly five times in all of fanforce asia and africa.

    And considering two of those posts, the most recent two infact(meaning within the last four months) have been about spam, I dare say I have grounds.
  12. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    You have grounds to judge people on how they're posting? Not unless they're breaking the rules you don't.

    Just because people don't post doesn't mean they don't read. I can lurk in what I call my 'home' forum (the chapter I actually belong to) for weeks before I post for any number of reasons.

    That doesn't mean I haven't read every single post in there. And I KNOW the same is true for quite a few other moderators and members alike. So I wouldn't call that a true way to tell.

    Quite frankly, farraday, my war is on spam, not on the boards. Yours isn't, which makes me wonder whether it's just the spam that's bothering you.
  13. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    First of all...spam is bad. Don't do it. It's really freaking annoying to clean up, and before you say anything, yes we do have to clean it up because IF someone from that region signs up and sees that crap, they're not going to want to post there. IMHO, if a board has been dead for an extended period of time, its usefulness should be reevaluated, but just because we haven't gotten around to that yet doesn't give people a licence to post whatever the hell they want there.
  14. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Frankly Shara the fact you keep having to fight the same battle with spam over and over again should tell you you're doing it wrong.

    As long as the forums exist without a real chapter posting there will be spam inundating them.

    And again, frankly it's silly that you're deluding yourself to believe I'm trying to whittle down your forums as part of some master plan.

    Edit// That makes perfect sense Hawk, but there is apparently no way to ever convince anyone those forums are anything but neccesary. And furthermore, if you want to keep the spam from turning people off it would be just as well to delete it. But doing so would reveal how incredibly empty those forums are.
  15. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    No, it doesn't really tell me I'm doing it wrong. Just that there are always going to be people who can't get the idea that spamming is bad. If they don't spam there, they'll spam somewhere else.
  16. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    There very well might spam elsewhere, but are you honestly saying the only reason those forums exist is to keep people from spamming elsewhere? Because they certainly aren't being used for any other reason.
  17. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    I see this conversation as somewhat redundant...is your point that we should delete inactive FanForce boards? To be honest, when we see no proof that members in that area exist currently, then it might not be such a bad idea. However, simply because it's inactive doesn't give people a licence to do anything they want in there. The forum has a purpose, whether people are posting there or not, and any posts contrary to that purpose shouldn't be there.
  18. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Where did I say that, farraday? I've love to know.

    Either way, my point was simple - whether those forums exist or not, people will spam somewhere. So we may as well leave the forums open for their original purpose if there's interest, and take care of the offenders as they arise.
  19. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I think the RSA's in general need to be more universal in their understanding of what constitutes inactivity. Leaving forums not being used by local members to being, help coalesce or actively contribute to a chapter is an invitation to spam.

    Just leaving the forums opens because you don't want to "give in" to spammers is certainly a failure in logic since you have to come in every once in awhile and bang heads again.

    Unfortunately some RSA's have an out of sight out of mind attitude and refuse to even talk about anything that isn't in their small slice of the FF.


    Where's the interest Shara?
  20. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    That's what the GSAs are for, farraday - global decisions, moderating and interest.

    Edit: grammar is fun kids.
  21. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Leaving forums not being used by local members to being, help coalesce or actively contribute to a chapter is an invitation to spam.

    To use a probably far too over-used analogy, a girl shouldn't wear revealing or alluring clothing because it's an invitation to get raped (and don't even start on that debate, it's just an analogy). People shouldn't spam, if they do we punish them for it. They should know better.
  22. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I don't feel the analogy is wholly accurate. I would say, though, that I'm not pardoning the spammers, but lacking any other reason for existence that is exactly what will happen again and again in a dead forum.
  23. Obi Anne FF admin Celebrations, Europe

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1998
    star 7
    You would be surprised to see how long it can take between a forum is created and a chapter is official. During this time, as long as there are local people interested in the forum, why should it be deleted just because people from the JC use the forum to get away from some rules?

    Having the FF forums around doesn't hurt anybody, but can really help in getting a chapter started and people to meet up.
  24. MysterySith MEPA Founder/Advisor FF NYC, NY

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2000
    star 5
    Shara, Obi Anne. Non FF people will be beating this to death until the end of time.

    I made a rare appearance in the JC Comm and here is the post I made.

    Speaking as a former RSA/GSA. Forums are created to lure prospective fans to post and form fanforce chapter.

    If a fan looks in a forum hoping to see posts by their fellow local fans and sees spamming by people from elsewhere that has nothing to do with their location they will likely be turned off and not come back. I believe they're pleanty of other forums to talk nonsense without invading a forum with another purpose.

    I recall this happing some time back in a South American forum.

    If a fanforce forum remains inactive for a long period of time it can be considered for removal. I recall that happening a few times. I also recall some forums that were deleted being recreated due to interest being formed

    I would imagine the rules have not changed since I was a mod.

    It has been a long time since I checked a Mod Squad update. I was just curious of what was going on.


    Shara & Obi Anne, keep up the good work. :D
  25. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    Forgive me but dealing with spam for years because someday there might actually be a group to go with the board is once again bad management.

    I realize that you're sutbborn and your view points are more entrenched then Verdun, but at a certain point unfounded optimism bears a strong resemblence to incompetancy.
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