Dealing with WAREZ

WAREZ. What we all ove to hate. We all know why we shouldn't use it... but what about other people?

A couple people in my production team are intent on using a downloaded version of Adobe After Effects. Even after sharing this information, they still say, "Dude, don't pay that much when you can get it for free." I've tried sending them this, but they don't even look at it and are calling me stubborn. Well, maybe I am stubborn, but they are too. I need to know what sort of logc they'd listen to. Any help? I'll even let JediTAC post

 

Ohh... It's easy for you to sit in your cushy jobs and say "it's just $40" but it isn't. The programs that these boards are pirating are upwards of hundreds of dollars, some even thousands of dollars! IT'S NOT EASY TO SHELL OUT THAT MUCH, especially for young students, which a large percentage of these boards seem to be made up of...

Now I'm nt saying that I would use warez but still you have to see their points. Also I don't think we need another freaking witch hunt around here, if they use warez its their business just leave them too it.


Thanks my point is made,
Spot The Cat

 

sure hope this thread doesn't spawn a flame war, i'm going to get a bucket of water and keep it handy anyway.


About your questions: Does it really matter what they are doing, I mean you are using legal versions of software and I would think that is all that matters to you.

I really don't see the problem with students using Warez to learn the program. If they don't make any money with it then nobody looses. I am just going to say here that I own all the software that I have made money with, if someone wants to download a version to learn it and then bye it if it is what they are looking for then I (personally) see nothing wrong with that.

Just my Opinion I guess

~Brent

 

Well, I don't think that warez is good, but I think that it's shouldn't be such a big deal if some teenagers don't wanna throw out (or don't have enough money to throw out) for programs that cost thousands because fanfilms are non-profitable.

 

Dear Spot The Cat:

I have bought all my own software, including Final Cut Pro and Maya.

I am a young student.

I do not have a constant job, I simply save my money whenever I can do jobs.

I thus refute your argument.

Not to take a holier-than-thou attitude, but hopefully you get my point.

 

If your students then you can get the great education deals out there. I got Premiere, Illustrator, Photoshop, and After Affects for around $500 dollars, not bad for a student with little or no money, like me.

Sithcloak

 

Ok, I am saying for the less fortunate people...

Some people cannot wait for years just too get the programs they need to do the job right...

I am sure some of you understand what I mean.

 

Or, you could do like I did and join the Campus Mac Users Group, where Apple officially sends you the software to use, review and show others how to use it. Everyone wins.

Peace,

Chad

http://www.cumug.org

 

I personally don't believe any type of logical argument will stop people using WAREZ. Some people use it, some people don't, some people take drugs, some people don't (okay it's a steep analogy, but hopefully you get the idea)

It's really up to the individual to want to stop using WAREZ, if they don't, then I doubt if any amount of logic is going to stop them.

I read somewhere that Microsoft where going to install chips inside their computers that somehow made the computers unworkable if WAREZ was being used, I'm not sure how that would work, but it would be a hoot to see happen

The trouble with WAREZ is that you obviously don't get a manual, and without a manual some of these programmes must be very hard to learn, if I have a problem, I can always look up the answer, and then carry on, wasting very little time. If I didn't have manuals, and I becuame stuck I'm not sure what I would do? Tell the client I can't do the work?

But try telling any of that to a twelve year old kid and making it stick. I would just take the moral high ground and move on, happy in the knowledge that you'll (hopefully!) become proficient in the programmes quicker, becuase you have all of the teaching material at your fingertips...

 

The thing that gets me in the whole warez debates is: What makes people to think that they are "entitled to" or have the "right" to learn these programs without paying for them? If you don't have the money for a particular program, save up for it; beg your parents for it; find a school that offers access to it; find a *legitimate* way to gain access to it - don't just *take* it because you can... it speaks poorly of you, it could get you in trouble with the law, and you just help drive up the price and make hassles for legitimate users... you say you can't wait that long? Tough... that's life....

Every time this "discussion" comes up, I'm usually reminded of a couple of parts from Mitchell Kaye's Bill of No Rights:
ARTICLE I:
You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

ARTICLE VII:
You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big-screen color TV or a life of leisure.

Yes, a lot of this stuff costs money... DEAL WITH IT - so does most of the stuff you'll want in the world... oh, I think I want that Ferrari over there... paraphasing an earlier reply, "it's awfully hard to shell out that kind of cash - guess I'll just take it!" How well do you think THAT argument would stand up in court?

Everything you want in life is not going to be handed to you just because you want it... do some work and *earn* the money or the means to get the stuff you want... it'll be better for you in the long run...

Fenn - definitely NOT a warez user or supporter...

 

Daft, Microsft have to take that stand, because they produce very, very little that people actually want to use, let alone buy.

Companies like Adobe, Newtek, Discreet etc work for our money. We have to try to hold back from buying new stuff. (Those of us that pay, anyway )

If Microshaft didn't spend so much R&D on trying to control the market, they wouldn't have one because we would all use something else!

Back to the thread: Warez is bad, I don't like it. It has taken me 3 years to finally get everything i want on my system, and now I have it I'll be buggered if I am nt going to get my moneys worth.

Your moneys worth arrives much sooner if you don't pay for it (I feel), and it is too easy to move on to the next great package instead of learning what your current package can do.

Just my opinion.

If you have a problem with your crew using it refuse to work with them, but be prepared to have your bluff called. No-one said doing the right thing was easy...

EDIT: In response to above post

While I agree with you completely, I think many people would use warez, take MP3's and not dream of taking a car.

A car, a bar of chocolate, a TV etc is a tangible good. if you have it, someone else doesn't. I think part of the problem of the attitude of the warez user is that they can take something, and not actually deprive anyone else of the same product. It makes it a little harder to argue.

You could argue about the cost of software being a reflection of the impact of piracy, but be honest. If warez stopped today, does anyone really believe software costs would come down?

Lastly, for those in the UK, you might be interested to know that piracy in the UK is now a criminal offence, rather than a civil one. That means the police do have the right to knock on your door now, and courts will be much more receptive to charges brought against you. of course, I would only really worry if you were making money out of it.

On the other hand UK law enforcement does like the easy target. Speed cameras anyone?


Pete

 

Ok, I hate getting into these discussion becuase, inevitable they lead no-where. Our arguments do not change the illegality of pirating software. However, I understand the argument of people my age and do agree with it to an extent. Student discounts are good, getting software for 500$ is a great deal, however, I can tell you, scraping 500$ together for a program is not easy! especially if you end up losing interest in the kind of stuff you bought the software for. As long as you dont profit from the use of the warez sofware I dont really see who gets hurt. Using warez to learn and seems ok and also to decide if you want to continue the use of the software,legally. After a while you may decide that spending hours keyframing stuff just isn't your thing.

 

this will go down like a lead balloon,but hey i get fed up of hearing this argument.

a question for those that have a deep loathing of Warez.
how many of you have used copyrighted material(without permission),in your projects,copied a cd or tape,watched or owned a pirate movie,taped films etc off the t.v. ,borrowed a computer game and installed it on your computer even if you removed it after playing it,lent a dvd to a friend,and so on ?

if people want to use WAREZ then thats thier perogative.WAREZ isn't just pirated software.
i bet thier aren't too many people here that haven't done at least one the above .

EDITk i might have gotten alittle carried away but here is the copyright info off one of my dvd's(Platoon)
"Any unauthorised copying,editing,exhibition,renting,exchanging,hiring,lending,public performance diffusion and/or broadcast of this dvd or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and any such action establishes liabilty for a civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution."
there was a bit more but that should get my point across a bit clearer,so i would say it is illegal to lend a dvd to a friend.here in the UK at least but i'm pretty sure there is a similar warninig on dvd's/videos in the states,if i'm correct it comes as an F.B.I warning.

by pirated movie i meant a movie you or someone on your behalf i.e a gift. haven't aquired from a liscensed distributor.

 

Looks like I'm a little late on the bandwagon here.

I basically have to agree with what DaftMaul said earlier . . . not much that can be done once the deed is done.

However, life has a funny way of creating irony down the line. Perhaps, someday, one of your friends will be on the development team of a software company ... work endless hours, months on end, to develop a monumental piece of software that will revolutionize the digital graphic world ... only to have his hard work and deserved profits fizzle before his eyes by the same practice that allowed him to utilize After Effects all those years prior.

I wonder what he would say to the argument, "who's it hurting" then.



JediTAC

 

fizzled? I'm sorry Tac, I fail to see how one person is going to destroy all my friend's, or even my, if i were in that position, hard work by taking my software and learing with it. If the user just can't afford it I amj not going to make a profit either way, As long as he ism't selling the pirated copy or making a profit from my software without leagaly purchaseing it.
Sorry if my beliefs have offended any of you

I have to admit that for a long time I did use a warez version of Ae, however woth the help of a student discount, my own money, a a birthday present, I leagly own the software now. I do feel better about having paid for it just because i feel it the right thing to do if i am capable of paying for it, a capability I did not have a few months ago.

However I can tell you right now, that had I not spent that time learning Ae and really becoming very interested in this stuff that I never would have bought the software. Before using Ae for a few months I considered all adobe products WAY over my head as far as the learning curve goes, something that i learend was not the case after geting used to it. A 30 day trial sometimes just isn't enough to make it worth a large monetary investment.
EDIT: many spelling errors

 

Quin, you make some nice points, but you have a deep misunderstanding of the law:

> how many of you have used copyrighted
> material(without permission) in your
> projects

Not all un-permitted use of copyrighted material is against the law or immoral. Not by a long shot.

> copied a cd or tape,

The Home audio recording act of 1982 makes this behavior EXPLICITLY legal.

> watched or owned a pirate movie

Define "Pirated."

> taped films etc off the t.v.

This is completely legal. HARA 1982. Read the law before you start playing moral equivalence games.

> borrowed a computer game and installed it
> on your computer even if you removed it
> after playing it

The legality of this is questionable, and depends upon the circumstances surrounding the act. In any case, it falls VERY close to fair use, if not completely under its protection.

> lent a dvd to a friend

What moron told you that was illegal?


I don't mind your trying to point out hypocracy, but for the love of Mike READ THE LAW before you go running around shooting your mouth off. NOT ONE of the activities described above is illegal or immoral in and of itself. Rather, they are issues that sit firmly in legal grey areas and the circumstances under which they are performed (including the motivation and consequences) make them legal or not.

-Lokmer

 

Qui Tin Tarintino Had it right when he said "how many of you have used copyrighted material(without permission),in your projects,copied a cd or tape,watched or owned a pirate movie,taped films etc off the t.v. ,borrowed a computer game and installed it on your computer even if you removed it after playing it,lent a dvd to a friend,and so on ? "

EVERYONE on this board has copyrighted idea's, song's, etc. at LEAST once in their movie, yet when someone uses someone elses Copyrighted material (specifically warez) you guys all jump on them.

I mean come on people, nobody on this board can possibly be on high moral ground... Heck this is a board about making ILLEGAL fanfilms. These aren't INDEPENDANT films with original music, or %10 or less of Copyrighted songs, no these are fan films, using someone elses copyrighted ideas, and someone else's music (most of the time). Now I don't care whether Georgio decided to take a blind eye to what we do or not... It's is still against the law, and if he took any one of us to court he could still win.

Now is pirating software any different? We pirate music, and ideas without thinking twice, but SOFTWARE, that's different

Thanks,
Spot


<EDIT>
"> copied a cd or tape,

The Home audio recording act of 1982 makes this behavior EXPLICITLY legal."

Yeah... If it's your CD's, and you own them.

 

I fail to see how one person is going to destroy all my friend's, or even my, if i were in that position, hard work by taking my software and learing with it. If the user just can't afford it I amj not going to make a profit either way, As long as he ism't selling the pirated copy or making a profit from my software without leagaly purchaseing it.


That's the point, it's not just ONE person downloading the software .... it's thousands (if not millions) around the world. CHINA is actually WORSE than the U.S. and U.K. combined when it comes to illegal solicitation of pirated software.

And don't fool yourself, my friend .... there are THOUSANDS of con-artists out there SELLING the pirated software all over ebay, local newspapers, Pennysaver, Recycler, etc.

You're being a bit naive and dellusional if you think it is just a handful of teens downloading stuff off of Kazaa or some other P2P and/or FTP software application.


Sorry to burst your bubble, my young friend ... you can try to justify it all you want.
The bottom line is, it's inherently wrong.



JediTAC

 

So is making fanfilms... But we still do it

 

Ummmm .... well, since THE SOURCE of the so-called "illegal copyright infringement" (i.e. Lucasfilm Ltd) has (and continues to) tolerate and, in fact, enjoy Star Wars FanFilms of all sorts, I think there is quite a bit of difference there, my friend.

Besides, Lucasfilm is in NO THREAT of losing any money from the continued production of amateur FanFilms.


Nice try, though.

 

Umm... I didn't say that they were about to sue us... I said that if they filed for a suit they would more than likely be successful... What we are doing is illegal

Oh and by the way... I don't think software pirates are really having a big impact on the profits of these companies...

 

^Ummm didnt George say fanfilms are legal as long as no one makes money off of them? Anyway on topic about Warez software, personally the only type of stuff i have downloaded off of the internet has been certain pieces of music. I got my copy of After Effects legally thank you very much. Well technically if you look at it I didnt cause i didnt pay for it.




I got it for my birthday

Well I think Warez is wrong more or less. I say that because I am kinda in the middle of this argument.

 

You're deluding yourself, then, SpottCat... pirate software hurts their bottom line, and drives the prices up for the end user...

Fenn

 

"^Ummm didnt George say fanfilms are legal as long as no one makes money off of them?"

No I think that would be he decided he will not sue you for making fan films as long as you don't make money off of them. George isn't the king yet... He cannot change laws, and as far as I know he has not removed the copyright from starwars.

Spot

 

Oh and by the way... I don't think software pirates are really having a big impact on the profits of these companies...


And your research is based on . . . . . . . . . . . . . ???