Dear LFL: No more Mara Jade (and other things fans don't want)

you're KIDDING shelley!!!


every mara fan i know of blames the authors...

 

Nope, I'm not kidding.

 

Things like that do happen, no matter how civil you try to be. Someone will respond that way, thus why its safer to direct everything at Mara herself instead of being accused of attacking an author when you really aren't.

 

When I blamed the authors I got jumped on by a Mara fan saying, "Don't blame the authors!"

Ahm... okay, that`s a bit weird, since you`re then right back to blaming Mara personally.
And it is after all the fault of the author if people don`t like the way a character is written. It´s not like Mara is real, living at the Skywalker ranch and bullying around GL, writing her own stories, or is it ?

 

I don't blame Mara for the way she is; she is only a character, and thus what the authors make her.

If it seems like I'm blaming her, it's only because it's easier and less awkward to speak of her as though she's real -- in the context of the story, that is.

 

Do blame the authors...the ones who got her wrong, at least. I don't hear people whining and crying about how they hate Luke because the authors got him wrong. Or Han, or Leia for that matter. It's all about whether you liked them in the first place.

 

Do blame the authors...the ones who got her wrong, at least. I don't hear people whining and crying about how they hate Luke because the authors got him wrong. Or Han, or Leia for that matter. It's all about whether you liked them in the first place.


I agree with Alpha Red. Who can we blame if it is not the authors? But I have to admit I was pretty irritated with Han after Chewie's death. He treated his family horribly. It was wrong! The author did his character a great disservice.

 

Some authors just shouldn't use other characters made by other authors. Mara was pretty cool in the Thrawn Trilogy, but was kind of messed up by some other authors in the NJO and JAT. Corran was another character. He is a totally different person when anyone but stackpole writes him in.

 

Some authors just shouldn't use other characters made by other authors. Mara was pretty cool in the Thrawn Trilogy, but was kind of messed up by some other authors in the NJO and JAT. Corran was another character. He is a totally different person when anyone but stackpole writes him in.

That is a really good point. I wonder if there are any checks and balances with these authors? Does Zahn have to approve what another writer does with one of his characters, like Mara (I am assuming he created her)?

 

?I agree with Alpha Red. Who can we blame if it is not the authors? But I have to admit I was pretty irritated with Han after Chewie's death. He treated his family horribly. It was wrong! The author did his character a great disservice.?

the authors did not do Han a disservice; in fact quite the opposite. They wrote his reactions to Chewie?s death very realistically. Han was an emotional wreck, which is to be expected after someone as close to Han as Chewie was dies. Chewie was like a brother to Han; he was his best friend, and had been with him longer than anyone. Han was devestated by Chewie?s death; and the way he dealt with that loss was very true with the type of person that Han is. If he had reacted any differently, then it really would have been a disservice because it isn?t how a man like Han would react.

[/i]? That is a really good point. I wonder if there are any checks and balances with these authors? Does Zahn have to approve what another writer does with one of his characters, like Mara (I am assuming he created her)??[/i]

Yes Zahn created Mara, and yes there are checks and balances, but not by Zahn. All continuity checks are done through LFL. Authors will usually keep in contact with other authors who are writing books taking place either just before or after their current project; and may seek advice from the creator of a given character for advice on that character?s personality, but it is LFL, not a given character?s creator who is in charge of making sure that these are kept consistant.

 

the authors did not do Han a disservice; in fact quite the opposite. They wrote his reactions to Chewie?s death very realistically. Han was an emotional wreck, which is to be expected after someone as close to Han as Chewie was dies.

I guess I just expected Han to be stronger than that. I have experienced the loss of best friends and family. I was devastated, but I never turned to destructive behavior. Blaming his son and ignoring his obligation to his family was not the best way to handle things. It may be realistic behavior for somebody else. I am just saying I thought his character was strong enough to stand by his family at this time of crisis. That is my opinion, but I can understand your point of view.

 

Do blame the authors...the ones who got her wrong, at least. I don't hear people whining and crying about how they hate Luke because the authors got him wrong. Or Han, or Leia for that matter. It's all about whether you liked them in the first place.


You just don't pay attention. There's a whole 10,000 post thread on how Luke's character has been raped and what a jerk he is and how unjust that is. The SOS thread.

Han would never have acted that. The real movie Han.

Han always gets trampled on much the way Luke is, by the EU authors little insertion pets.

Han is portrayed as a loser in HST, which should have been called the Bria saves the universe story.

He was portrayed as a paranoid, freaky coward in HOT duology. No surprise there, since Zahn loves to trash the original charaters to elevate his Mary Sues and Gary Stus.

And then of course, there sleazy no class Han in CoPL. He kidnaps her and is portrayed as an idiot. And in TaB, he was a moron.

Why? Well, Tyers hates Han because he "stole" Leia from Luke (???).
And Zahn wants his characters to outdo any movie characters.
Dave Wolverton must hate Han, or Harrison. Lots of guys are jealous of Harrison.
And of course Crispin has a major HF lovethang, so she hates Leia and had to make up Bria as herself. She is just unbelieveably crazy. Shelley can tell you why in PM. The woman scares me.

So yeah, DO blame the authors becaue they bring in all their wanton, strange fantasies into the equation instead of writing the characters like they should. The bring their own prejudices, and biases, and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. It's just not very professional.

 

Now that's the best point you've made in a while.

I thought Han's reaction to Chewie's death was written realistically. It's not like he'd never taken a drink in his life before -- the important thing is that he came around in the end. War does weird things to people -- it rapes not only unfortunate women and children who get in the way, but people's character. There are any number of articles of soldiers' thoughts on Vietnam that will tell you that. Google for them.

Of course there's a 10,000 page thread on how Luke's character has been raped. Why isn't there a 10,000 page thread on why Mara's character has been raped? Or Corran? Take your pick -- it's personal preference, nothing more.

 

Dont characters change over time?

OWLC

 

So yeah, DO blame the authors becaue they bring in all their wanton, strange fantasies into the equation instead of writing the characters like they should. The bring their own prejudices, and biases, and that shouldn't be allowed to happen. It's just not very professional.

Amen. Tyers was given more leeway than any EU author should ever get. So was Crispin. According to Sue Rostoni, Zahn doesn't get anywhere near what he wants when he writes a book. I shudder to think about what his books would be like if he was given what he wants.

I do blame the authors. I blame them for letting their biases and fantasies dictate what they wrote, and for writing what they personally wanted to see, not what best served the story/characters. I also blame the publishers for allowing all that, and for poor planning/execution of storylines.

Mara hasn't been butchered. She's always been self-righteous, self-centered, self-pitying, rude, insensitive, a know-it-all, and unable to keep her mouth shut. What's happened is that her character has been stagnant. She hasn't been allowed to grow. That's not to say that a few authors haven't written some growth for her, but that is always canceled out a book or so later.

It is a disservice to Mara's character that, instead of holding her accountable for her rotten behavior, authors simply whitewash/retcon it. She showed absolutely no grief or distress over Anakin's death. She chewed his parents out and lectured them like they were her underlings. The only distress she felt was over Ben's brief kidnapping, after which he was returned to her, totally unharmed. Yet Anakin's brutal death inspired no grief, no distress, or even sympathy for his parents.

But do authors hold Mara accountable for this? Do they show her looking back on her disgusting behavior and being ashamed of herself? Do they show Han and Leia refusing to put up with being treated like that? Do they show Luke maybe taking Mara aside and telling her she behaved inappropriately?

No. They show Luke enveloping her in his love. They show Han and Leia bowing their heads in meek obsequience to Mara. They offer a retcon in later books, inserting non-existent grief and tdistress which she "just pushed down."

(Odd how she didn't push down her distress over Ben's brief kidnapping, nor her terror at leaving Ben with those horrible grieving parents, Han and Leia, who might, oh my gosh, upset him; and funny how she didn't push down her distress over the loss of her ship.)

Once again, there was an opportunity for some real growth in Mara's character, to show moments of badly-needed self-examination and reflection, to show other characters refusing to put up with her crap...and once again, Mara was let off the hook; once again, other characters were completely passive with Mara.

Han's response to Chewie's death started out realistic but then it was taken much too far. Even Luceno admitted it and says he wishes he'd written it differently. It seemed to me that Han and Leia's separation was designed to take as many cheap shots as possible at their relationship. The official reason given for separating them was to shake them up and make them more interesting. OK...so where's the payoff? How come Tyers was allowed to gyp them in favor of writing a Luke/Mara fanfic? How come Han and Leia were marginalized and belittled in favor of gushing about Luke and Mara's perfect, Force-bonded love?

There have been repeated reassurances to the audience that Luke has never loved any woman like he loves Mara. Why not put in something about how Han has never loved a woman like he loves Leia? After all, they were the ones who went through one hideous trauma after another in the NJO (any one of which, to say nothing of all of them, would have permanently split up many couples), yet still remained together. A couple who could survive all that must love each other an awful lot, even without an almighty Force bond.

 

Well said Shelley. I agree completely and couldn't have said it better myself.

 

Thanks, NeoStar.

 

There have been repeated reassurances to the audience that Luke has never loved any woman like he loves Mara.

I don't think Luke really understands what love is, in some ways. Lots of his doctrine is mixed in with Jedi doctrines of compassion and forgiveness and tolerance.


It's funny. I think Mara is the only one that "loved" him back. She still seems like she reads some manual about what she is supposed to do and say with a lover than coming from a sincere place or being spontaeneous.
They were both totally inept at relationships. They didn't seem to really feel what they say they feel. It's more they dutifully "feel" that, because it's what they're supposed to feel.

Both Han and Leia had other serious relationships before they got together, but they are soul mates. They took a long time, but the emotional work seemed real.

With Luke and Mara, I have never gotten a sense of that, that they are really meant for each other, no matter how much it's foisted onto us.

I feel like they are together because there's no other options, and they both don't want to be alone. Considering their advanced ages (38 and 40, at the time they got together) and no healthy, real relationships, they are together because it seemed like a good idea since they had a moment of "force bond" where they saw each other's soul or whatever. But that doesn't mean it lasted. I don't believe the force works that way.

I still don't get that there was an attraction there. They never had sexual feelings, no joking, or laughing, no common interests, no nothing that makes people fall in love. They don't have compatable senses of humor, or any compatability at all. It's not even opposites attracting, because before the ohony force bond, they weren't ever attracted. They just were like, "OK, let's get together". Let's make terse, schoolkid kisses with closed lips, and narrate our feelings. I feel like this is special.

LOL. Can you see Han saying to Leia, "Oh Leia, I believe this a very special moment we shared. Bwahahahahah!" "Bite me, Han." "That's the plan."

Luke: I feel like the way I stroked your hair was very exciting.

Mara: Yes. I'm so glad I didn't kill you, so I could share this special moment with you. I like having my hair stroked, Luke.

God, they are a boring pair.

 

TF that is a very interesting observation. When one examines the relationship between Luke and Mara it certain appears that way. Neither has had a real relationship before. Both do appear to be together for no other option then that there was no one else for either of them. There is the force connection which seems to come and go at randaom and that seems to be the entire basis for their relationship. Sure there was respect between the two but no other type of attraction or even friendly might I add. We are never shown anything like this. This is a very important aspect of building a relationship for the characters and the readers. Having it all happen off screen is an excuse that can't be done here in my opinion.

Its as if the way they act is the way they think they should be acting towards each other instead of acting normally the way Han and Leia do. Or any other couple. Them being a Jedi can not make there relationship any different from a normal person. In fact they should be so at ease with each other that words shouldn't even be needed. That isn't the case here now is it. Mara should know what she is saying and how she is acting is affecting other people and Luke unless he has become so closed off to other people that he can only see Mara and her needs. Everyone else be damned. The fact that she doesn't and doesn't care about anyone else goes right along with her character but it also makes her a horrible Jedi. Its clear by her actions she doesn't deserve the title of Jedi Master let along actually be considered a Knight.

I swear if Luke were ever to die or even Ben she would become a Dark Jedi in a heartbeat.

Why is she always writen as suppressing her emotions in situations when she should be emotional and understand but she is emotional in superfical situations or only when it direction concerns herself? Like said, after thinking I don't believe Mara has ever been writen badly or wrong. She is right on the mark. What's worse is that other characters have grown and greatly matured, even if they were already mature while she has stayed the same. Its like going back to high school to see all your friends and finding out that they have families, great jobs, kids on the way, in the military, and generally moving up in the world. Then there is the one member of the graduating class that is still in the torn geans, talking slang, asking if everyone has checked out the latest rave in the area. The person just happens to be married to a well known doctor or author. This is how Mara stands out when you group her with other people. Her being quite you wouldn't even know she was there but when she opens her mouth it just makes you cringe.

This was fine for the character when she was introduced due to her background and understandable. After 20 or so years she is still the same. Also the fact that authors have been changing her background as well makes her behaviour even worse since now she has no reason to be acting this way at all, even when she was first introduced she has no reason to be acting this way.

 

Oh God. The pain. The mind-bending, nonsensical pain of illogic. The lack of enthusiasm in my voice. Oh God. Not that I have a voice over the Internet. Oh God again. That must mean someone cut my tongue out. Oh God. Now I can't tell anyone that people push their feelings down on a daily basis. Now I can't tell anyone that war does that to people. Now I can't tell anyone that what LFL says goes. Boo hoo. Oh God, my life sucks so much.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, very young one.



I have to say that your flat, uninspiring tirade mirrors Mara's endless, droning self-absorption very well.

 

Why is she always writen as suppressing her emotions in situations when she should be emotional and understand but she is emotional in superfical situations or only when it direction concerns herself?

Good question. She sure didn't suppress her emotions when she lost HER JOB, nor when she crashed HER SHIP, nor when HER SON was briefly missing. Even long after he was returned to her totally unharmed, she still raved and ranted about it, while Luke sat there in awe of her.

You'd think that as a mother herself, she would've felt more empathy for Leia, at least, when Anakin died. But she didn't. She instead chose to chew Leia out and talk to her like she was two years old, and never felt in the least ashamed of herself for her insensitivity. Leia comforted Mara when she was ill. Mara couldn't be bothered to do anything but bite Leia's head off when Anakin died.

It's typical for her, though. When Jacen was missing, Mara, along with Luke, mocked Leia as delusional behind her back for believing Jacen was still alive, and neither was in the least ashamed of themselves when Leia was proven correct, nor did they give her any credit whatsoever.

 

Of course it's flat and uninspiring. I've been sick for the past two days.

Then again, you don't forgive Mara, so why should you "forgive" me?

Here's why:

*randomly drops a boatload of donuts into the thread*

 

When do Luke and Mara "mock" Leia for her beliefs? I don't remember that, and that's way out of character for Luke.

 

that's way out of character for Luke.

It certainly is. More evidence of how Luke has been butchered in the NJO.

It's sad to see how little he cares about Leia in the NJO. This is especially apparent in the way he shrugs off her torture, and how he refuses to stand up for her when his insensitive wife rips into her.