death star plans - so stupid...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by grimster, Mar 21, 2005.

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  1. grimster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2004
    why did dooku have to show us the death star plans when he is on geonosis? do we really have to be force(!) fed these obvious details? first we see a model of the death star in the background, but that isn't enough. dooku has to show "us" yet another time that this is really the death star. uuuuh, what does lucas think we are? a bunch of retarded kids with the attention span of a gold fish...?
  2. Darth_Lacerus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2004
    star 1
    That is something that always bothered me as well, however, you would be surprised as to how many people didn't even notice the Death Star Plans on the wall prior to the handoff to Dooku. People, in general, are not that observant.
  3. LORD_MIKESTER Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2005
  4. grimster Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2004
    well, screw them! :)

    i think this cheapens the movie. subtle details ain't a bad thing imo...
  5. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    uuuuh, what does lucas think we are? a bunch of retarded kids with the attention span of a gold fish...?

    Ah yes. Lucas gets torn apart for not explaining stuff clearly -- he's "leaving too much up to the audience to figure out for themselves." Then he gets torn apart for explaining stuff clearly -- he "thinks the audience is so stupid they can't figure it out for themselves."

  6. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    Hayden's looking at me whenever I watch RotJ, so I think we can let this slide. Although, you have to take into consideration that Lucas had newbies in mind when he threw the death star in there. It's a referrence, just like the line about Anakin being the death of obi, but to a newbie it's just some meaningless computer graphic. Is it blatantly done, oh hell yes it is. Stupid? Not as much as greedo shootin first.
  7. ThrawnSocks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2004
    star 1
    Actually I felt it really helpfull. I was paying more attention to the subtitles. When Poggle walked over to the display of the Death Star plans, I only cought a glimpse of it for a moment, and I was like "Wait, what? Was that what I thought it was?" Then I saw him flash the plans, and I thought that was super cool. I thhink it was helpfull. And I think there was a thread exactly like this a week ago...
  8. redsabreanakin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2005
    star 5
    your kidding right?..c'mon it wasn't that big a deal. nitpicking??
  9. DS615 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2003
    star 4
    uuuuh, what does lucas think we are? a bunch of retarded kids with the attention span of a gold fish...?


    Actually, goldfish have quite long attention spans.

    That aside, yes, GL thinks we're all as smart as a bag of hammers. The DS thing you mentioned, the new Emperor explination in ESB (in case you don't realize that Luke is the same Luke from the previous movie), and the adding of hayden's head in RotJ (in case you don't know that Anakin is the same anakin from three movies ago).

    Wait for the bonus edition that comes with prompts that tell you when to breath...

  10. dooku-ca-choo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2004
    star 2
    If you want subtle details, watch interpretive dancing. Part of the fun of Star Wars is being beaten over the head with plot points.
  11. JMaster Luke Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2000
    star 4
    wow what will you guys think of complaining about next? I guess it never ends.

    as for me i'm glad dooku showed the death star, cuz I too was reading the subtitle and wasn't paying attention to what was in the background. Only when dooku showed the hologram did i see the death star for the first time.

    besides dooku opening up the hologram is like someone re-counting money when someone gives it to you. If someone is suppose to give you $100 and he gives you 5 $20 bills your not gonna just walk away...your gonna check to see if you have 5 total $20 bills.

    So that alien gives dooku the plains for the death star, he's not gonna just walk away without being sure that the alien accually gave him the plans.
  12. Matt-trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2005
    star 3
    ^^^
    I agree with you completley
  13. bswb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2000
    star 1
    The death star plans being revealed is actually one of my favorite Star Wars audience moments. When that scene was going on, I was reading the subtitles. I thought I caught it out of the corner of my eye, and I heard some people around me whispering. Then Dooku flashed it, and suddenly the theater was alive with whispering and quiet chatter. Yeah, it's 'bash 'em over the head' obvious, but it was worth it for me to have that one nice little moment.

    As for the ESB dialogue, I actually think it adds a very subtle subtext that puts a whole new twist on the film. The film crawl says Vader is looking for Skywalker, and he says 'I'm sure Skywalker is with them!" Yet with the Emperor, he plays dumb - when the Emperor brings up Luke, he says, "How can this be?" Palpatine knows EVERYTHING so of course, he plays along.

    To me, this smacks of Vader hiding his true intentions from Palpatine. He pretends he doesn't know it's Luke, searches for him on his own, and then when they meet on Cloud City, he tells Luke they could "rule the galaxy as father and son!"

    By adding those two lines between Vader and Palpatine, it gives a whole new subtext to their relationship - Vader is abiding by Sith tradition of trying to take out the master - but Palpatine turns it around on him in ROTJ when he tries to convince Luke to finish off Vader.

    Anyways, that's probably a topic more for the CT forum, but it was mentioned here so I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. From a certain point of view, it could be 'bash over the head plot explanation', but from another point of view, it could be adding a clever bit of depth.
  14. LordBlack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 3
    I thought it was a good idea. Look at all the confusion around the sifo dyas story. Least said.
  15. Tyranus_the_Hutt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2004
    star 4
    first we see a model of the death star in the background, but that isn't enough. dooku has to show "us" yet another time that this is really the death star. uuuuh, what does lucas think we are? a bunch of retarded kids with the attention span of a gold fish...?

    Judging by your grammar...:p

    Was it really necessary to articulate those ideas in so offensive a manner? Do we have to employ pejorative analogies to those with cognitive disabilities? The minute that you choose to express yourself in such a way, your credibility diminishes 100 fold; resorting to such forms of communication does little to further the underlying claims in your conceit.

    Since we're past that, I shall answer your query: No, I don't feel that Lucas revealed the Death Star plans in any sort of heavy-handed manner. So, we got a wide shot of the control room on Geonosis which featured, on one side of the frame, an image of the Death Star. Shortly thereafter, Lucas cuts to a close shot of the holographic representation of the Death Star as it is displayed from within Dooku's hand. The standard rule of filmmaking suggests that you begin most scenes with a "master" or wide shot, and then cut to medium and close-shots as incidental action would dictate the successive camera edits. This begs another question: had we not seen the Death Star earlier, would people be inspired to complain of its absence, and that Lucas was all too subtle in his approach to the scene? At what point do we commence our complaints about Hayden Christensen's cheekbones? I think, grimster, that you are reading far too much into this scene - it's a non-issue as far as I am concerned, and I think that the basis for these "criticisms" is extremely tenuous at best. The introduction of the Death Star is a nice nod to the gradually collecting level of foreboding within the picture's narrative - no, it isn't subtle, but it isn't insulting, either.

    If this isn't the bottom of the critical barrel, I don't know what is.....
  16. DarthJohnkenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2004
    star 4
    At what point do we commence our complaints about Hayden Christensen's cheekbones?

    Well they are obviously CGI'd :p
  17. DarthUncle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    star 5
    Well, when I first saw it I did think it was a bit too obvious, although a lot of people I know didn't even notice it and couldn't care less o_O.
    I agree with JMaster Luke that it does make sence for Dooku to actually check the plans, yes.

    Also, when I saw the movie again I thought it was cool. It's just that I think this ties up some things too much. I used to think that the deathstar having a rather obvious security backdoor was typical of the arrogance and self-assuredness of the empire that didn't really see the rebellion as a big threat. Now it is a serious design flaw by beings that should and could have done better. And to top it off, in ~20 years noone thought to change the design? Sure.

    Oh well, the audience is rather big and diverse, so maybe for most people that noticed it was a cool thing to see. Just for the really close watching fans (on the 5th watch?) it is rather too obvious.
  18. Prime_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 2
    The first lesson in film school is that you have to assume that the audience is full of idiots.
  19. MYMUTHAZ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2001
    star 3
    i thought it was one of the better OT references.....
  20. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    The thing that bugs me about is all the people who seem to think that the Death Star is going to be in Ep.III. That one drives me crazy.
  21. LordBlack Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 3
  22. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    The only reason it might appear Lucas is making the Death Star appearance so obvious is just because we've all seen 4, 5 and 6 and know exactly what the plans mean. Watching in 1 and 2 first would leave the audience wondering about what Dooku was refering too and give them a chance to get a good look at the plans and think up their own ideas on what it might be.
  23. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
  24. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    You're being extremely nitpicky. There's nothing wrong with showing us twice. Obviously, it's for dramatic purposes. Seeing it in the b ackground is not the smae as having it set up dramatically by Dooku's lines.
  25. Nkenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Every one always has to complain about every detail of the prequals >.> fans of LOTR didn't like the huge change in story, but they still sat back and enjoyed...

    I didn't notice the deatstar in the back of the room cause I was reading the subtitles, not everyone can watch the scene and read the subtitles at the same time. I actually didn't notice the death star, untill about my fith time seeing the movie. But each time I pay less and less attention to the movie, cause I'v seen it before.

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