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Deathstar plans - Stolen by the Empire, stolen by the Rebels

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by i_dont_know, Oct 13, 2005.

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  1. i_dont_know

    i_dont_know Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 6, 2005
    Sidious/ The Emperor originally builds the deathstar from secret plans stolen from the Seperatists in Attack of the Clones.
    In ANH the Rebels destroy the Deathstar after stealing secret plans from the Empire.

    This is interesting in light of the fact that the Seperatists are the underdog to the Republic/ Empire, similarly to the Rebels being the underdogs of the old movies.
    I noticed this last time I saw the ANH opening crawl. An important chunk of the opening crawl is uncannily similar to an event in Episode 2; Dooku stealing the plans from the Seperatists during the battle of Genosis.

    "During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the Deathstar."

    I could say a similar thing about how the Empire received the Deathstar plans in the first place. Just reverse the role of the Empire/Sith.

    "During the battle, a (Sith/future Empire) spy stole secret plans to the (Seperatists) ultimate weapon, the deathstar."

    It quite a bizzare parallel. The Seperatists willingly hand over secret plans to Dooku, not realising his Master is future leader of the galaxy. This leads to the construction of the Deathstar. 20 or so years later, Rebel spies steal similar plans from the very Empire who stole them in the first place, and it leads to the destruction of the space station.

    It's like Sidious's treachery came back and bit him in the ass.
     
  2. Darth_Turkey

    Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 5, 2004
    Not possible. Dooko did'nt steal the plans he was handed them. As we see at the end of AOTC one of the seperist leaders (i think he's called Poggle the Lesser) gives Dooko the DS plans saying "If the Jedi find out what we're planning to built we will be doomed"

    Dooko then takes the plans and says "I will take the plans to corrasaunt, they will be safe there for my master"

    So the sepertists were in on the whole thing, the plans were'nt stolen, they were designed likely by all the sepertist leaders with Dooko and Sideous input.
     
  3. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Yea but then Sidious planned on betraying the Separatists from the beginning. So he did steal them because he was never considering giving them back. ;)
     
  4. Darth_Turkey

    Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2004
    He did'nt steal anything, they were working together on it. Sideous just planned on killing them off after he got what he wanted. But they were'nt stolen at all.
     
  5. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    So you take someone's plans, with the sole intent of killing them off later, and that's not stealing? What is it then, borrowing? :p
     
  6. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    Sticky legal question, what to charge Dooku with. In a way more fraud, he has their permission to take the plans, but has gotten that permission on false pretenses. Like me telling you if you give me the keys to your Ferrari I'll park for you, then going on a high speed joyride around the greater metropolitan Chicago area with the Star Wars theme blaring out the stereo.
     
  7. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 5, 2003
    Well no, Dooku didn't go up and say "Give me that you little rat!", but still I consider it stealing. You're right, they took the plans under false pretenses and then eliminated the Separatists later on in the game. Either way, they stole the plans and used it for their very own purposes.

     
  8. Dark_Jedi_Kenobi

    Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Well I wouldn't say he stole them because he didn't take them wihout permission, he was given them. Although Sidious most likely always planned to kill off the Seperatists so you could say that he borrowed them without planning to return them. :p
     
  9. i_dont_know

    i_dont_know Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2005
    When I said "Sith spy" in my original post I was acknowledging that the Seperatists handed over the plans willingly.
    In a way, Dooku is acting as a spy for Sidious, pretending to work towards the Seperatist cause, but ultimately working solely for the Siths' own benefit.
    Also, Sidious was keeping a low profile at this stage, so he needed Dooku to gain their trust; firstly to start the war, but also so he always had insider info without ever actually having to reveal himself to the Seperatists.

    To say they were "working together on it" is giving Dooku's honesty with the Seperatist leaders too much credit.
    The line
    "They will be much safer... with my Master" is implying to the audience that this is probably the last the Seperatists will ever see of the plans.

    It's just like these other lines Dooku speaks to the Seperatist leaders during the Genosis battle -

    Dooku:
    "How could the Republic have amassed an army so quickly?"

    This is an army Dooku had a large part in creating.

    Dooku:
    "My master will never let the Republic get away with this treachery"

    Dooku knows that the "treachery" he is speaking of was actually masterminded by Sidious himself.

    Considering the respect they seemed to hold for him (shown by their decline in morale after his death), he quite harshly screwed them over really (or helped in it anyway).
     
  10. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    in the end I don't think the fraud/theft distinction really matters here, as the parallel between the two events is pretty shaky.
     
  11. i_dont_know

    i_dont_know Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2005
    I don't care about the "parallel" itself, this thread just made me realise that it isn't that clear the Sith steal the plans from the Seperatists.
    It doesn't matter if you think that there is no connection between non-conformists creating Deathstar plans and non-conformists stealing them...

    but its pretty hard to say Dooku acquired the plans under honest conditions.
     
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