Deathstarplans

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Suburp, Jun 20, 2001.

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  1. Tellesto Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 1999
    star 5
    Simply fascinating posts here.
    Very interesting work being done to construct the timeline of the Death Star.

    Aach was the code name of a special messenger from Bail Organa, a messenger the Alderaanian viceroy used only for top-level Rebel Alliance business

    -Interlude at Darkknell

    That concludes that the Rebellion is already functioning according to the observations of Bel Iblis.

    Later they suggest:
    Aach looked around the area again. "There's been a breakthrough," he said, lowering his voice to something barely above a whisper. "We've located Tarkin's project."


    So, they possibly are talking about the DS in IaD.
  2. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    Well, thanx!

    A really important timeline for me, too.

    I've never thought of that guy you're talkin'a bout, but that's another hint, yeah.

    Greetz,
    Sub.
  3. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Sturm...
    "Somehow I don't believe what the EC says there...3 years."

    Actually, that can be very reasonable - given the resources of the Empire, the high-priority status of the project, the environment of the galaxy, slave labor and the lack of regulations (safety, etc.).

    Remember, technically, the "first" time the plans were seen WAS in fact decades earlier in the not-too-different form of Raith Sienar's preliminary design in Rogue Planet.

    By the time of the classic era, all of the "hard stuff" has already been completed in design. Raith would have probably turned over to Tarkin something like a 100% complete preliminary design, plus fairly complete final design of key components so that Sienar knew the project was feasible. After all, Sienar had complete HoloCAD details of the project. Therefore, the design must have been in the final stages of at least pre-lim, if not final way back in Rogue Planet.

    That's the majority of the time spent in a complex design already completed before it ever came into Tarkin's hands. On projects of this magnitude, final design is the easy part once prelim is already done.

    Now, once you get into construction, the Empire can be assumed to have "infinite" resources and money for the sake of this argument, I think. Any construction project is going to be limited by three key items -
    1. time
    2. resources
    3. money

    I think that the Empire can be assumed to have both unlimited resources and unlimited money for the Death Star. So, basically, with unlimited resources and money, the time required starts approaching 0. Now, as there is some efficiency loss at trying to coordinate a project of the Death Star's size, a few years is reasonable.
  4. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    I dont dispute that the Empire couldn't do it all within 3 years, but it just seems like the second Death Star would have been done a little faster than 4 years ( Maybe 5 to be fully complete ). I don't know...maybe the galaxy having an active Rebellion hampered their timetables? I also think that one of the GalaxyWide NewsNets from the Adventure Journals, mentioned a raw doonium shortage, which was presumably going to the DSII construction.

    Maybe Jerjerrod was just a slacker.
  5. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    Couldn't it have been all a cover for that trap for the alliance at DS2. All those faked shortage news asf., don't ya think? And what kind of mineral is that doonium exactly?
    Greetz, Sub.
  6. Mavrick889 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 1999
    star 4
    Well, preliminary work was being done on DS II at the time of A New Hope. Just read Tim Zahn's "Hammertong" short story.
  7. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    No, it wasn't faked news. It was actually causing economic problems I think. Doonium was used in the Death Star core.
  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Sturm...

    The one you are searching for is SWAJ #7...

    "Mid-Rim Experiencing RawMat Shortage
    Nar Shaddaa Node
    According to several industry experts of our acquaintence who do not wish to be named, raw materials essential to the production of capital starships are becoming increasingly scarce, especially in the Mid-Rim region. Doonium is especially hard hit, and rawmat purchasers are now snapping up every shipment of the stuff they can find..."

    Technically, it isn't proveable which Imperial super-weapon the shortage was for. The date? of the Doonium shortage was 36:6:26. The date? of the unveiling ceremony for the Executer was 37:10:23. Presumably, since the Lusyanka was also being constructed at the same time as well, the shortage could've been for some big "final push" in construction of the two SSD's. Of course, it could've also been diverted to production of the DS2 or the construction of the Galaxy Dragon, or the construction of the Tarkin, or the construction of Star Tours' DS3, or... :D
  9. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Thank you Genghis. True, true. You have good points. Although it is unproven, it's easy to see it was mainly refering to doonium for the second Death Star.

    I dunno. I'll go with the 3 year thing for now ( It IS official - and 99.9% of teh time I agree with all and anything official. )

    Man, it's no wonder Vader was slapping Jerjerrod into gear. The man was a good 2 years late on completing the Death Star! Maybe resources were lower, akin to when the Emperor declared the Empire and fleets and clones were made in a short amount of time to dominate the galaxy? Could be the threat of Rebellion caused the Imperial shipyards and factories to crank out weapons at a faster rate.
  10. DaJames Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2000
    star 4
    Back when the first DS was under construction, all the Empire was worried about was intimidating dissident outlying populations into ignoring some of the more dirty deeds of the Empire. When DS 2 was started, the Rebel Alliance was in full swing, battles were being fought, independents were following the example by joining the Rebs or at least fighting the Empire. Maybe Palps actually learned from his first error and decided to devote more materials to building ships that could beat systems back into submission, maintain constant terror in suspected sytems AND fight the Rebels at the same time. So naturally, work on DS2 and the Tarkin would be slowed. It's also possible that Palps waited until the Rebs were in full run mode before beginning his project, to create less chance of the Rebs discovering it before the time was right. Even then, he still ordered another superweapon laser built as a decoy. And after creating 2 SSDs already, he had announced that another 4 would be ready shortly after the Battle of Endor. And there was mass production of the new TIE models, including a huge orbital tower factory base and SSD frame for the Phantom Ties, in the year leading up to RotJ. And all those robot TIEs they fling at you during XWA. Not to mention the controversial beginning of the Eclispe-Class Destroyer in this period.

    Unlimited money or not, it will strain your shipyards and resources to build so many things with such security and secrecy.
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Sturm you must also take into account that the DS2 is a much bigger and much different from the original DS. It would take longer to build cause of the size, and resources that were needed to build it. You can't really associate time to build it with the first one because of it's major differences.
  12. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Thank you, both of you. All good points. However, believe it or not, I think there was 4 SSDs built per year, during the Galactic Civil War, for a total of 16 during ROTJ. I think Stackpole mentioned that in one of the Adventure Journals. The 4 originally spoke of being built, are as of shortly after Yavin ( Imperial Sourcebook ) I think that would be Executor, Lusankya, and Iron Fist for 3 of them.
  13. Wes Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2000
    star 3
    DS2 was bigger then the first and was redseigned to fix flaws like the thermal exhaust ports. So this would have added a few months plus the fact they had to build the shield generator on Endor, pick a planet for it to orbit, get resources there, including slaves and personnel.
  14. DaJames Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2000
    star 4
    And do it in absolute secrecy to prevent those pesky Bothans from finding it and taking credit. That would slow down the works.
  15. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    Hi!
    As to those SuperStardestroyers (I don't like those shortcuts, sorry ;-> )
    For sure, there was already the Executor, Palps Flagship. And the forth, wasn't it the Ralroost?

    And this I found about the shortage in the Imp Sourcebook:

    Taken from a report by the Imperial Navy to the Emperor's advisor's on budgetary affairs:
    'While starfighters took a premier role in the recent battle of Yavin, capital sips remain the heart of the imperial navy. Those ships conduct battles on a large scale. They do not engage in common dogfights - that's the part the smaller ones are assigned to. When capital ships meet, they engage in a war of spacefaring cities and the outcome could result in thousands of deathz.
    These combat starships measure over hundrets of meters, require large crews to operate, use massive amounts of impressive powercells and generators, and are heavily armed and armored. Under the New Order, many of the vessels have been commissioned. But since the emphasis of Imperial Doctrine has again turned toward the use of the imperial fleet, even more of these ships of the line are needed.
    Examine the reports of those ships and you'll find a variety of vessels currently in at least limited use. Any or all of them can be put into mass production with a simple word from your office. Remember, we will not crush this rebellion by tying our hands in bureaucratic datatape. We need resources made available to increase our galactic might a thousandfold. With such resources, nothing will be beyond the reach of our Emperor.'

    Those reports include the asseemingly smaller capital ships like the Assault Shuttle, Blastboats, Patrol Crafts, Strike Cruisers, Escort Carriers, Lancer-Class Frigs, Star Galleons, Carrack-Class Cruisers and even the old Dreadnaughts. Furthermore, of course, the Interdictors, Victory Class (I and II) and Imperial Class StarDestroyers. But the largest projects mentioned are those SuperStarDestroyers with a total lenght of 8000! metres and the Loronar's Torpedo Spheres. Those are little Death Stars that only lack the superlaser. With a total lenght of 2000 metres and up to 600 Proton Torpedo Tubes this siege plattform can penetrate the heaviest planetarian shields, and bombard it. There are already six of them in action during the battle at Yavin.

    Altogether producing all of them in a mass production (and these are only the big ones! Not to mention all those other projects already mentioned and dozens of others) could for sure short even the almost unlimited ressources of the empire. And the rebels know when to strike where... ;-]

    Greetz,
  16. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    And not to mention the uprising rebel (or other rebellic) activities on all planets against the always getting harder grip of the empire. That must keep them busy and slow down the smooth transportation of goods.
  17. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Hey, don't forget Prelude to Hope. ;)
  18. Darth Pikachuwbacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2000
    star 4
    Someone suggested that Biggs was involved in obtaining the plans in the X-Wing game. This wouldn't work, because Biggs joined the Rebellion DURING A New Hope. (Offscreen of course.)

    Just thought I would point that out, because I haven't read (or played) any of the stories that deal with getting the Death Star plans.
  19. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Actually Darth...some revision was needed. In X-wing Rogue Squadron by Stackpole, Wedge talks to Gavin and Corran about Biggs, and that they went on many missions previous to ANH.

    I think when he was on Tatooine with Luke, he was talking like he was going jump ship, but he already did. Maybe he didn't want to freak Luke out too much. And then just a couple days later, him, Wedge and Porkins were on Commenor waiting for a shipment of R2 units...then they flew to Yavin 4.

    Besides, we're taking X-wing into account for these discussions, and it appears ( from the in-game text and strategy guide ) that Biggs really was in X-wing Blue 1. Kinda corny, but it happened.
  20. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    Bubba: What's in 'Prelude 2 Hope'?

    And, yes, in the X-Wing game, there's a scene where Biggs and Skywalker actually meet during flight duties on some rebel base.

    greetz,
    Sub.
  21. Suburp Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2001
    Hi!

    And why don't they build the third death star and use him in the New Republic?
    Or far later as a defender againt Vong?

    Greetz,
    Sub.
  22. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    There was a DS3, by the way, and it blew up, :D.

    Prelude to hope is a fanfilm, and therefore not part of continuity or this discussion, or even this forum(even if it was well done).
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