Debunking plot holes

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by bswb, Jun 2, 2005.

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  1. Steve1977 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 3
    The whole, "why doesent Ben recognise R2" is something that always crops up. But in that scene, the acting by Alec Guiness seems to knowingly half smile at him. His first, 'half truth' in a way. Sure he didnt own a droid, but he certainly knew him etc.

    One plot hole I was disappointed with, although I have only just realised it is.... "I havent gone by the name of Obi-Wan since before you were born"

    I know there is a deleted scene for Revenge where Obi-Wan is carrying Yoda like a baby to get back into the Jedi temple. Would have been nice to include that and have Obi-Wan saying his name is Ben whilst the guy checks the papers.
  2. thenink Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2002
    star 2
    I feel that the term "plot hole" is being used too liberally by people on this board without any real knowledge of the meaning of the term.

    So here!

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    A plot hole is a gap in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic set-up by the plot. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses and flaws in a story, and writers try to avoid them (except in certain deliberate circumstances) to make their stories seem as realistic and lifelike as possible.

    The viewing or reading audience notes a plot hole when something happens during the story that seems highly unlikely, or would be impossible to imitate in real life. If a bank robber's car is being chased by five or six police cruisers, and the bank robber successfully evades capture simply by making a left turn down a dark alley, this is seen as a plot hole.

    It is usually seen as a mark of good writing or directing when a storyteller presents a story in such a way that the audience does not notice plot holes, or willingly chooses to overlook them in favor of enjoying the story.

    Example: Bill is killed in a fire, but shows up later. How did Bill return from the dead?


    So after reading that, how can you say that Anakin and Obi-Wan not using the Force to knock off the buzz droids or Ben saying "I haven't gone by the name of Obi-wan since before you were born..." in ANH are "Plot Holes"?!?!

  3. Obi-Ron42 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    Padme calls him "Obi-Wan" right after Luke is born ("...There is still good in him.") Then Yoda, Bail, and Obi-Wan make their plans and go into hiding. The last time Ben used the name "Obi-Wan" in public was before this, so I don't see this as a plot hole.
  4. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere so, sorry if its been covered already. I don't understand why they all (Anakin, Obi, Palps, R2) go sliding when the Invisible Hand starts "diving" toward the planet. It appears that they aren't in the atmosphere at that point, so there should be no gravity in relation to the planet affecting the ship. I would assume that each ship has some of internal gravity generator to keep people on the ground, and in space, there should be no up, down, or sideways, right? Can anybody explain this?
  5. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Simple - Star Wars physics...

    In other words, if it looks and sounsd good on screen, it is physically possible.
  6. Ellbobin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2004
    star 4
    I came up with

    Why doesnt Yoda want Luke to go and save his old friend Chewey from Vader?

    I hate myself
  7. leelee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2003
    star 3
    Because he probably figured that Luke would fail like his father to save Padme. It's not like Obi-wan didn't want Anakin to save Padme (if he would have known) but it is about not forming attachments and let things progress the way they are supposed to
  8. DarthTickle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 1
    "I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere so, sorry if its been covered already. I don't understand why they all (Anakin, Obi, Palps, R2) go sliding when the Invisible Hand starts "diving" toward the planet. It appears that they aren't in the atmosphere at that point, so there should be no gravity in relation to the planet affecting the ship. I would assume that each ship has some of internal gravity generator to keep people on the ground, and in space, there should be no up, down, or sideways, right? Can anybody explain this?"


    Gravity has nothing to do with atmosphere. Otherwise there would be no gravity on the moon, which has no atmosphere. If they were able to substantially slow the fall of the ship (not falling at the rate of gravity, but still pointed straight down) the things we saw on screen could happen.
  9. Queenie Amidala Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2000
    star 5
    There's some good stuff in what you said there, Surgent.


    Um, I'm probably the only person that has an issue with it, but in reference to the twins...

    "We must take them somewhere where the Sith won't sense their presence."

    Now, I know there are all kinds of possible explanations as to why Vader does not sense Leia in ANH. For example, if you want to say that she hadn't used the force yet and Luke had, etc. Whatever.

    But, I have a problem with them putting this line in ROTS. This implies to me that their mere existence would be sensed in the presence of the Sith. This is why they were hidden. It doesn't make any sense why they would go through all the effort of splitting them up and taking "them somewhere where the Sith won't sense their presence" and then send Leia in the middle of it all to Alderaan to live with a Senator and to become a senator herself.

    How is this keeping her safe from being sensed by the Sith?
  10. Xin-Te Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2001
    star 1
    in the novel, the ship's gravity generator is on the fritz from the battle, and keeps shifting the gravity in different directions


    I can only assume Vader doesn't sense Leia in ANH because he doesn't think she exists.
  11. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    If the gravity generator were on the fritz, wouldn't everything in the ship just start floating?

    Good point about the atmosphere... but my point is that they are at a point far enough away from the earth that earthly physics should not affect them. If they are in space, they shouldn't start sliding. It works on screen, its fine for me, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it too hard. Just like things exploding in space.
  12. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Someone answer me this: How does Yoda know Anakin's new name is Darth Vader? When he and Obi-Wan watch the security holos, Sidious does not call Anakin by that name, yet Yoda says that he's "consumed by Darth Vader."
  13. leelee Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2003
    star 3
    hmm, that's a good one. You could always say he senses it through the force, or perhaps there is audio on the recording that the audience just doesn't hear or you could say it is a flub :)
  14. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Well in the 3SA they say he DID call him Vader, though I don't remember that. After 6 damn times... lol. 8-}
  15. Worst_Jedi_Ever Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2004
    star 1
    When Yoda says this, he and Obi had just watched the Temple's security holograms--which, show, among other things, Palpy saying to a kneeling Ani, "You have done well, Lord Vader."

    Or, Yoda knew that he'd need to have a good, dramatic line for the trailers. :p
  16. Blackout Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    If the gravity generator were on the fritz, wouldn't everything in the ship just start floating?
    Good point about the atmosphere... but my point is that they are at a point far enough away from the earth that earthly physics should not affect them. If they are in space, they shouldn't start sliding. It works on screen, its fine for me, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think about it too hard. Just like things exploding in space.


    I was under the impression that although they were just outside the atmosphere, they were inside the planet's gravity-well. So that when artificial gravity generators failed, they were the right way up for the planet's gravity to compensate. And when the ship points nose-down, the direction of gravity doesn't change.

    Had they been further away from Coruscant, it wouldn't have mattered as much, and things would have started floating when they were 'nudged' by vibrations of the ship or pushed by other objects.

    Oh, and as for things exploding in space; You're probably right, but I always assumed that was the ship's fuel/flammable-materials/oxygen that was going up. Not sure if that'd work though :p

    :) {||||| ?||} -----------------------------
  17. Harlowe Thrombey Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 1999
    star 2
    Explosions wouldn't make noise though...would they?
  18. Jedi_Meb Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2005
    star 4
    Here's the thing, explosions do occur in space obviously, but it is correct that they don't have sound in space, as sound doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's just done that way in every movie because no one wants to see a silent explosion ;)
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