Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by DarthBreezy, Oct 20, 2004.
I tend to inspire a lot of people, whether it's through art or Star Wars lol XD
First of all, thanks for responding. Yep, I love the OT very much, and I'm actually glad the PT was created If not for the PT, I would still think I'm alone with my love for SW, since none of my friends cares about it. But seriously, I don't mind the prequels, and while I can't view them as the actual backstory of the OT, there're a couple of things that captivated my imagination as much as the OT. In fact, since I given up trying to connect them with the OT, I'm able to appreciate them more.
As for Vader I used to think, well, what was stated in the OT, that he was once a good man, seduced by the Dark Side and then turned back to the light. I used to feel very sorry about how he wasted his life with the Emperor instead of having fun with his family, and also that he didn't have some more time with his kids after he turned back. The main reason I don't quite like Anakin in the PT is, that to me, his portrayal somehow diminished the whole redemption motive, instead of deepening this feeling. OK, I don't want to go on with this stuff, not here.
Other news that i did call a mod after all, just to clarify things. I do admit I shouldn't have posted that thing though.
TragicLove, you're new, so you get a free pass. In the forums Strilo and I moderate, we do not discuss the fans, we discuss the films. This is because far too many people on theforce.net have proven themselves generally inable to have a discuss about fans, even in a generic since, without it disolve into some kind of flame war - as we have seen here.
Now, the rest of you are not new, so I would have expected better. Since this thread has been on good behavior for so long, I'll let most of you off with warnings. Dawn, consider yourself fortunate. You know I ban people for discussing the fans not the films. So, drop it and don't repeat it, else it'll be ban. And yes, using the word fan without calling anyone by name is a violation of that rule and you know it, whether or not you agree with it.
Same for everyone else.
Look, this is the DEFENDERS OF THE A&P LOVE STORY thread, not yet another PT basher/Lucas basher vs. gusher thread. Go back to the 9th level of fan hell you came from or the mods will be called in.
MissPadme, I'm not sure you want to be calling mods. That's a bannable flame.
Personally, based upon what you have written in this thread, I think you don't entirely know what you're talking about nor what GL has done with the PT.
jedi-ES, you made an effort to keep things civil and obey forum rules, so I'm going to let it slide this time, but never tell anyone they don't know that they are talking about again. Intended or not, that's a bait, and you know we ban for baits.
Now, I expect that this matter is closed and that we are all back to saying good things about the lovestory.
Actually, I deserved that one. Early morning is not my time for an argument.
yeah, the mornings are a bad time for a debate.
I'm very sorry Darth-Stryphe. Thank you for not banning me. And I apologize to everyone else as well. I didn't mean to start a fight or get anyone possibly banned. I just felt particularly strongly about this subject but see now that I should have kept those kind of thoughts to myself. I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended or gotten into trouble.
It's a good thing that you feel strongly about things, TragicLove, that you *do* have your passions....as I know we all do here....it's why we're here, after all, and it's why we follow 'em. And then, too, let's remember how Anakin, for instance, does feel strongly about things....and really can't be any other way....and since that's something we admire, understand and appreciate - as feeling creatures, natch - well, now, there really is no other way for us to be either....so we should be proud of it, be glad that we have our passions and follow our hearts. I know I'm glad for it, and I want you to be as well....I want *all* of us to be. It's why we're here, why we love our Love Story, our Anakin and Padme....and it shall ever remain so! Being passionate creatures, call it an artistic temperament, however it may be defined....well, by my reckoning, it's still always been the only way to go.
It's Anakin's modus operandi, after all, as I said....and we all know how he and his story, it's very much a reflection of us too....just holding up the mirror to our own natures. And we're all the better for it, I do believe....
*hugs MissPadme* Just felt I had to do that.... You know how we enjoy you, and what you have to say, and what a strong, stalwart presence you are here, and have always been, all your long years on these boards....and in my purview, we're all a great deal better off for having you around to espouse and muse and wax rhapsodic on all things....I just want you to know that too, my dear....and, of course, provide some more snuggly warm and always-needed *hugs*.... We're better for having you here, as we are for having *all* of us staunch and loyal, bred-to-the-bone Defenders around here....shall it ever remain so! *more hugs* Know that we love you, always....remember that, above all else....draw strength from that, and take heart in that, above all else. I know I do....and we *all* should!
Hmmm.... *curious look* I wonder where our AnakinsLuv has gotten to of late.... (albeit with the new sweet little one on hand, to be sure....ah yes, we might as well start training 'em early, the next generation of Defenders! *chuckle*) Reason it occurred to me is that, as I recall, she was doing a post-ROTJ ficcie, and am I remembering right, or was there perhaps the possibility of a tender A/P afterlife reunion therein....? I suppose it's quite possible that I'm getting my ficlets a wee bit confuzzled....but hey, considering how prolific we all are, I suppose it's bound to happen at some point. Perhaps it's just all the talk about them being together in the eternal afterlife of the Force, having their happy ending at long last, which really got me thinking anew about it....and wistfully smiling over it, to be sure.... (as well as wondering if that rustling sound I'm hearing is plot bunnies trying to sneak up on me....eeek!)
I'm back for more of Anakin and Padme's love for each other XD
Good morning folks.
I see you younglings have been up to trouble while I was gone!
Well yesterday I did a fun costuming event in Boston with the Alderaan Base of Rebel Legion and the NEG 501, in my Barriss Offee again. I got to chat with Peter Mayhew and Jeremy Bulloch. I also got to meet and chat with a non Star Wars person, Kevin Sorbo, who is very down to earth and a kind soul who advocates for kids by promoting positive mentor roles. We gathered a lot of toys for the Toys for Tots. I really enjoy the costuming group events. Gabriel was there and in her newly made Padme Lake Dress.. does a lovely job with the sewing. She work the blue Senate dress from ep2 last time I saw her. I wish I was so talented at the sewing.
We know here that the Anakin's love for Padme was what caused him to be turned. We know how Palpatine played on his fear of losing her and deceived him. Anakin would never have fallen for the deceit if he did not love Padme so deeply. His love for her is central.. was his weakness. I always feel so badly for him now when I see him in his suit.. lost it all.. his humanity, his wife, his Jedi family. It is terribly tragic.
We are defenders of that love here on this thread but when we think of it, it is ironic because we defend what caused his demise. Strange, is it not?
But is he not also redeemed through what he and Padme made together. And it was his fault for turning to the Dark Side, not Padme's. While his obsession did lead him there, it's still his fault
Wow, I missed it.... actually I'm relieved.
Thanks Stryphy, for popping in...
Guys, remember that we welcome ALL POV... the idea behind being a TRUE defender is to show people who are brave enough to come out of lurkdom the reason *Why* we think the Love story is so wonderful, not to chase them off! Heck, I've even enjoyed a post or two in the Basher's Sanctuary, does that mean I lose my defender licence?
I don't care for 'Phantom Edits' mostly because they can't add the missing things - but for the odd deleted scene that Pappa George graces the DVD's with - you can't add what was never filmed.
I mean, if TPE had the FULL version of the fireplace scene - (Heartbreakigly more beautiful in the shooting script) or the 'baby nameing' which we see snippets of in ROTS (Anakin and Padme laughing with his hands on her belly) Would I prefer it? Hell yes! Do I prefer the Original "Han shot first" to the butchered Nutureing of Han in the SE? Of Course! Do I like much of the EU post Jedi? Lets see, as I said, in my "Breezyverse" Mara doesn't exsist, PLJ has been rewriting the Post EU since time out of mind...
To each our own folks, we're pushing FOUR good years of Love Story Defending, lets keep it that way...
Awww man, he left out the baby naming part, I didn't know that, oh well
First, thanks for responding. I hoped I didn't come off as baiting you into posting. I sincerely wondered about your opinions. And honestly, your response made a lot of sense and helped me to understand a few things about some aspects of fandom. Thank you.
Anyone who has been here long enough, whether mod or not, knows what goes on around here.
Now, I do appreciate you recognizing that I attempted to develop a civil discussion about these things. And I do understand how you are defining "baiting" in such a strict form in order to prevent any flaming from occurring. And maybe I should have stated what I meant more clearly. But for the record, I don't think telling someone that they haven't supported their argument is a flame. It's a fact and when you are engaged in a rational, intelligent discussion, that's what you do -- state the facts and allow someone to rebutt, which I clearly did. I was not emotionally engaged and was having a discussion, hence my comment that his argument wasn't supported. Plain and simple.
I do appreciate the warning. I am merely stating my POV on the matter and since I don't view matters around here to be important, we'll move on. But if you want to comment, you can post here or PM me. I leave that in your court.
We are defenders of that love here on this thread but when we think of it, it is ironic because we defend what caused his demise. Strange, is it not?
It is quite ironic, but given the discussions concerning his motivations over the past years on TFn, it seems entirely acceptable and needed. Now we can simply just bask in being right.
In regards to the EU and the greater universe during the Saga and pre-Saga, there can be quite a discussion about it. And I've never had a problem with fans interpreting the GFFA for themselves and sharing it with the rest of us. I do think, IMHO, that it's a shame that better writers, learned in myth and storytelling, weren't chosen for the EU books. They seem all too much like SF books, which SW isn't. And I do think that because of copyright law, the control that LFL has expressed over the GFFA has limited the amount of creativity that could be exerted upon GL's creation and built upon that.
The funny thing about copyright law is that if it was present in the Middle Ages, many of the stories coming out of that time period would have impinged on several copyrights and we would have lost a great deal of fantastic literature.
And with all those extra scenes and extended scenes that GL shot throughout the PT, I wouldn't be surprised if, without the limitations of movie theaters, GL creates a double secret probation version of the PT, with each running 3 hours+. And who hear wouldn't buy that? LOL.
I would beat everyone off with my Anakin lightsaber to be first in line!!
yeah, I know that would be awesome
Oh, I think it's impossible that anyone who treks on over this-a-ways, seeks us out, could *ever* be "chased off" by anyone or anything....we could never be, after all, so they won't be either; they're truly into it, like us, so they'll keep finding us here....quite the heartening thing that is, to be sure. So clearly, when it comes to those who are nosing us out, all the lovely new Defenders we keep attracting....nothing could ever "chase" them away. I'm proud to say that nothing could ever do that to the rest of us, either....ergo, we remain.
Now, then....I wonder why it is that I can be desperately trying to noodle inspiration during normal, wakeful hours, but at times in total vain....yet when it's two, even three a.m., and I'm just trying to get to sleep - *that's* when I start having sudden, renewed brainstorms and breakthroughs on an idea.... For the life of me I dunno why it seems to work that way, o' times....and of course, *that's* when I don't have a pen and paper nearby....argh and double argh! - yet I've actually managed to remember the gist of it, so that's something....certainly a lot more than I had before two, three a.m....and hey, just so long as that's not the *only* time inspiration manages to come, I'll be alright. Because there's only so much staying-up-that-late I can do.... *pries open eyes* *still trying to wake up* I'm pleasantly relieved and potentially hopeful, though - who knows but what that A/P ficcie may yet still come through....and this time, I *will* keep my brainstorming notes in a safe place.
Oh, and....an interesting point there, qingauk, for sure - and, yes, we *can* certainly bask in the knowledge that we here were right all along....feels nice, warm and cozy, if you ask me - but I actually think a distinction that could be made here is that it *wasn't* love itself that caused, or contributed, or was the deciding factor, in Anakin's fall....so much as it was Sidious' clear exploitation of that love, that singular vulnerability of Anakin's; he knew precisely how to get to our poor boy, and from that warped and evil perspective, it was all about taking what can potentially be a very great strength - and using it as a vulnerability to exploit against the person, treating it as a weakness that can be used against them....really, it's all about how something like those very human emotions are viewed - if they're seen and treated as a strength, then that's what they are.
If, on the other hand, someone who has only bad intentions - someone precisely like Palpatine, who *doesn't* at all mean Anakin well, it's obvious - sees those same very human emotions, they view them only as a weakness that can be exploited....in Anakin's case, like his proverbial Achilles' heel, a vulnerability that Sidious could potentially and very ably use to twist the poor soul around so completely that there's no way he could ever get free. Combine that, of course, with the dreadful number that Palpy had been doing on him for *years* anyway, constantly exploiting him, subverting and manipulating him....and Sidious' clear perspective that Anakin's love, his concern for Padme and his need of her, was but another crack in the armour, a vulnerability to be used and abused - well, of course that's how an innately evil being is gonna look at it.... But if one views things like love to be a strength, a saving grace, a real positive motivator and a force for good....then that's precisely what they are.
They *can* very much be the greatest strength of all....it's just in how others view them, and potentially even use, manipulate or outright abuse them. That was what Palpatine did, to be sure....but then compare and contrast that with how others, like Shmi and Qui-Gon, Padme and Luke, viewed love....how for *them*, too, their caring, their emotion and love for Anakin, and his love for them and need *of* them, could only be seen as a very great strength and a motivator for good....and so it was, and that's what he became - *because* that's the perspective he was surrounded by, the very healt
I'm going with both Breezy on some parts here and Stryphe. At the end of the day we are all fans There are those that like the EU there are those that don't. There are those who like the PT more then the OT. There are those that like the PT more then the OT. I can go on and on. Point is this thread and the BS thread have been around a long time and bring in a lot of different people to the SWC froum. I say let's keep it that way.
*ahem* I thought we were trying to get back to the usual rhythm of things....what about my musings of earlier? What do we think about those, then, eh? Any thoughts, inspirations, considerations.... Howsabout that, then, shall we? Or whatever else has struck us of late....like perhaps someone was watching "Sith" and had another "Aha!" moment that they'd love to share....in fact, I find that happens to me quite a lot, even now - same thing with AOTC, actually, and TPM too....I'm always discovering these new little aspects, considerations or subtleties, new intriguing little moments, even years and years later....and I think that says a lot right there, too.
A friend of mine pointed out something very interesting: think about this if it wasn't for Queen Amidala being in trouble Qui-Gon would have never considered landing on Tatooine, and Anakin would have never been found. In AOTC, again, if Padme wasn't in danger Anakin wouldn't of had to protect, which slowly but surely got them together,In RotS Padme gives birth to Luke and Leia, when Luke grows up he redeems Anakin. So, if you think about Padme is extremely important in Star Wars, more important than we all think ^_^ so in conclusion their love for each other is extremely important
Talking of Anakin and Padme being together in the afterlife....I came across a picture someone had doen up of precisely that, the reborn, young-again, whole and hale blue glowy Anakin together with a blue glowy Padme by his side, looking so very much like his ethereal angel....'twas a very lovely Photoshopped effort, actually, to show the two of them together like that....quite delightful when someone shows them having their happily-ever-after at last, reunited in the warm embrace of the Force and each other where nothing can ever again separate them, where they have an eternity and then some to be together, and love each other with all the pure, unadulterated, freed love that could ever exist in this galaxy or any other....an eternity and a happy ending that's been a long time coming for them, certainly, but is perhaps all the more richly rewarding for that. At any rate....it just tickles me in all the right places, I find, to come across Photoshopped piccies like this....always such a delight!
Yeah, I agree. What's interesting to me now is watching the scene in ROTJ when Luke and Leia are talking about their mother. There is a new kind of dramatic irony in that scene. All Leia remembers is that she was "very kind, but sad" and neither has no idea how important their mother was to the Old Republic as a whole. Not only that, but that their mother and father's love for each other changed the entire course of galactic history.
Man, I really, really want Lucas to insert Padme into the end of ROTJ. Most people say that it's not possible, one because she is not force-sensitive and because she never learned the method for doing so. Well, as far as we know, neither did Anakin. I think that George said something about Yoda and Obi-Wan working together to "bring Anakin over" to whatever state they existed in. If they could do it for him, then maybe, with the combined power of the Chosen One, they could do it for Padme as well. And as far as being force-sensitive goes, there was something in the Art of Revenge of the Sith about Padme having the highest-midichlorian count of all time because of her pregnancy with the Chosen one's twins. I think it was mentioned in this thread before. It was either an abandoned concept or simply not expanded upon in the film. I also disagree with those who say it would be pointless because Luke wouln't recognize her. He never saw what his father looked like before being injured, yet he was able to recognize him perfectly. If he were to see Anakin lovingly embracing a brown-haired woman who looked a lot like Leia, I think it would be pretty clear to Luke who this woman was.
But for the record, I don't think telling someone that they haven't supported their argument is a flame.
Telling someone they haven't support their arguments can be done tactfully, true enough, but telling someone they don't know what they are talking about (pretty much a direct quote of what you said it them) is not. Big difference. You may not see it, but that's just the way it is.
Anyway, we're back on track here, so let's keep the good discussion up!