Defenders of the A&P Love Story Reloaded (Part 3)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by DarthBreezy, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Watching the program "Sexual Intelligence" tonight, hosted by Kim Cattrall - absolutely *love* her, by the way, and the show itself was fabulous....highly intriguing, immensely fascinating, to be sure....and one part of it in particular that sort of made me sit up and take notice all the more (though of course, I did keep thinking of Hayden while I was watching this show....gee, I wonder why.... *giggles*) - well, it was simply when they were talking about the act of kissing, and what role that can play at really any stage of courtship or lovemaking, in relationships as a whole really....but what this one author, or "sex-pert" if you will - *sly smile* - said was that there was once a belief, a saying, that people exchanged their souls through the kiss....like past the lips, under the tongue, for instance - simply as though each soul left the physical body to join with the other through that simple, pure, intimate expression of love. :)
    And....I dunno, it just put me so intensely in mind of Padme and Anakin, that's all....naturally strongly reminded me of their first kiss on the balcony, to be sure, where Padme just gives Anakin that singularly long, searching look, and no words need be exchanged between the two of them, it's just something they're *feeling* right then and there....and Anakin simply gazes back at her, almost shyly smiling at first in that utterly adorable and entirely winning way he has, but then in the space of barely a few seconds, other emotions subtly play across his features....the most subtle and wonderful of reactions, one blending right into the next, and it's all so *natural* and so mesmerizing to watch....how in the space of even a moment or two, you can see so much change, so much is really *happening*, right then and there. And then, he leans in....she tilts her head back, she's welcoming him in, and she gives only that soft little gasp or intake of breath just as their lips meet and meld together.
    And when they do, no question, it is a *wonderfully* pure and tender, burgeoning-passionate kiss, that in fact is only getting still more subtly intense moment-by-moment....perhaps almost shy or exploring at first, but the second their lips touch, it's just *the* most purely right thing in the world, and they're just losing themselves in the moment....in what it is to kiss someone like that and feel them right there with you in every way, responding to you....again, in every way. And certainly when I see them kiss like that, it reminds me very much of that wonderful notion, mentioned in that program tonight, about how lovers exchange souls, as though each leaves the body for a time to join with the other in a perfect state of grace, pleasure, love and joy, for a time. I do think it's a genuinely beautiful notion, though, for sure.... And certainly I feel that way when I see their kiss just before they're hauled into the arena....
    After all, even though it may seem unusual given the circumstances, there really is this sense of freedom about their kiss at that moment, a real freedom from all constraint and restriction, from any preconceived rule or outside stricture that would seek to tell them no, to have them deny the heart's desires and soul's dictates....it's the pure freedom which essentially says, irregardless of this situation we find ourselves in, I still love this person, and I want them to know it, and no matter what happens to us, I want them to *always* remember it....and I have to express that....and it truly does seem to me like all the yearning and desire, the hope and tenderness and unfettered love, embodied within even one single, straining, desperate but most sincere kiss....that whole thing about the meeting of the lips, and the souls meeting with them, right there too. :)
    And of course....their kiss, and their coming together, in their secret wedding....well, now, in every sense of of it, that really is all about that joining of two souls together in love, right there, for them....with the kiss, certainly, and also with that pure and very wonderful reality of them pledging the
  2. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    Hope everyone here is getting ready for a nice weekend w/ loved ones and good food :D

    I've been recently working on getting back into the drawing mode and moving away from writing, mostly because I got a new computer (FINALLY!) and am going to work on getting my mitts on art programs.

    Here are a couple of warmup pieces I recently created of our favorite former Queen/Senator/Wife/Mother:

    [image=http://webzoom.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/SW%20Images/Queen%20Amidala5.jpg]

    [image=http://webzoom.freewebs.com/padmeleiajaina/Artwork/Padme%20GreenF.jpg]

    I have a thread over in the Fanart section if anyone wants to check out my other pieces ;)

    I'm somewhat scared to attempt Anakin...I'm seriously worried that I'll mess up that gorgeous face [face_worried]
  3. TragicLove Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2005
    star 1
    Nice art, PLJ.
    I bought Dark Lord today, and in browsing through the bookstore I skimmed through some of the other Star Wars novelizations. What struck me is a small passage at the end of ROTJ, when Anakin has been unmasked and is experiencing all of his senses again without the aid of his support system. "Suddenly he smelled something-Flared his nostrils, sniffed once more. Wildflowers, that's what it was. Just blooming, it must be spring." Doesn't this sound like he's remembering his time in the meadow with Padme? I know that this book was written years ago, far before the meadow scene was even scripted, but in the context of the saga as a whole it has become very poignant.
  4. Minela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 3
    Nice art, I myself will be attempting to recreate the AotC poster, you know "Jedi don't feel anger, or hatered...or love (or something like that)" so wish me luck.
  5. Arriss Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 4
    I'll have to go back and catch up on the last few pages but I wanted to do this first...



    HAPPY BIRTHDAY PLJ!!!!!!!! [:D] @};-


  6. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3
    I have to say ...respectfully... that I can't quite understand those who feel so...well..warmly...about the Anakin/Padme love story. It is interesting, yes, and touching, and sad, but ...isn't it ultimately more sad than anything else?

    With the best of intentions, Padme encourages all the traits in Anakin that will lead to his downfall. That doesn't exonerate Anakin in any way - he makes his OWN choices! - but... They are tragically TERRIBLY matched. And when Padme begins to realize this, begins to realize that there is terrible darkness in Anakin... he responds by choking her near to death (I don't think it is at all clear that he wouldn't have simply killed her had Obi-Wan not intervened), and she ultimately dies of a broken heart.

    So how is it that so many seem to get so warm and fuzzy over this romance?

    Not trying to brow-beat or insult... just... I don't know, shaking my head a bit here. Was wandering by, peeked in and...well... ???

    Shadow
  7. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    *is feeling all warm and fuzzy over the romance today, what with more, surprisingly successful, fic-brainstorming* It's because Anakin has only the utmost respect for Padme as a person....it's not because of her office or her political stature that he bears her such affection and devotion - although of course he clearly admires her even more for her commitment to it, her willingness to fight for what is right....much as he does, in fact - but it's rather simply because he cares about her for *her*, as Padme the person....the woman he loves and only has the utmost devotion and loyalty to, treating her *very* honourably right from the beginning. (like when she was so foolishly denying her heart's desires, telling him that no, they couldn't have a relationship, couldn't "afford" to love....Anakin was deeply wounded by that, but still he backed right off and never once said anything more about it - until *Padme* was the one to bring it up again, to make those overtures....releasing her heart to love him....)
    It's because they truly do bring out the best in each other....Anakin can simply be *himself* with her, as he can be with no one else, in any other circumstances....with Padme, he can at last let go and simply *enjoy* himself, and her....he can laugh, and be at play, and be carefree....and the equally wonderful thing is how he brings that out in *her*, too - how being with him, and seeing his pure zest for life, the pure passion and emotion with which he lives (irregardless of what the Jedi tell him he "must" do, or "must" be, according to their overly-strict and suffocating codas) - she realizes that here is someone who's not expecting anything of her but for her to simply *be* herself, at last....no constraints, no politicking, no pretense....she, too, can just let go and be happy, and enjoy herself with him....and it's pretty clear that the only times we *do* see them truly, deeply, genuinely happy, smiling, laughing and enjoying themselves - is when they are together, and only with each other.
    It's because when Anakin even so much as glances at Padme, you can immediately and readily discern his utter devotion to her, his loving worship of her....it's because he clearly has eyes only for her, and everything he does and says is only further proof of that. It's because of how he touches her, with warmth and strength and, ultimately, such passion and *love*....how with even his fingers splayed through her hair, brushing the nape of her neck or tenderly stroking her cheek, you intrinsically know beyond even the power of "mere" words, just how much this *is* love....how these two people desire each other, need each other, cleave to each other....and, yes, *so* truly, deeply love each other....in every way, they show it, in the large things and the small....great and subtle ways alike....and it's so beautiful, sincere, tender and true that it can move one to tears at once....in fact, that's what it's doing to me even as I sit here. *wipes eyes*
    It's because....Padme asks nothing of Anakin but that he simply be precisely who he is....the man that she loves, the *good* man....her husband, yes, but even more so than that, perhaps - simply a human being, who *is* in fact entitled to feel, and to react to things in a very understandable and human way....she never dictates to him that it's somehow "wrong" or "unnatural" to grieve, to be angry, even to have hate in certain circumstances....she knows that it's all part and parcel of being human, a very feeling creature, as Anakin of course very much *is*....and she loves him and accepts him for that, just as he is. It's unconditional love, and acceptance of him as a person, the good man that she always knows him to be....and this is a rare and very welcome gift, and of course, it's also *precisely* what Anakin needs....and receives it from her, just as he did from his mother, and what a positive difference it can make - that unconditional love, that acceptance and trust of someone...."just as they are".
    It's because....when Padme strokes Anakin's face in those alone-moments on
  8. keione_tyger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2005
    star 2
    Sometimes I think we like it because we know all good relationships can eventually turn into crap lol, I know from my own experience ;)
  9. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Well, as I think I may have just demonstrated there....no, really ;) - clearly the Love Story appeals to the pure, idealistic romantic-at-heart in me....the believer in true love after all, the fact that it *is* possible, and *does* in fact still exist....basically, it very much directly appeals and speaks to the part of me which very much feels precisely as poets, bards, artists and singers have felt and expressed for centuries....that it really is *all* about love, baby! :D


    Dawn.
  10. keione_tyger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2005
    star 2
  11. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    *joins keione in happily and most contentedly sighing* *tosses roses in the air in honour of The Love Story, and our beloved, most favourite couple* As they say in "Moulin Rouge!", after all....it's the Bohemian ideals of Truth, Beauty, Freedom....but above *all* things....Love! Always, love.... :D *tears welling up* *is enormously happy and satisfied*


    Dawn.
  12. keione_tyger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2005
    star 2
    * goes into her hyper giddy fangirl mode* [face_blush] [face_love]
  13. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    *joins keione in giddy fangirl mode* *gleefully runs over to the DVD player* Oh, oh, this is just *so* exactly what I've been needing....well, what always is just so *very* sublimely good for me, anyway, but....oh, you know ;) - I mean, this is just *everything* to me.... Really feelin' the love here, right now, truly....and it truly is excellent, the most wonderful thing....or, you know....fabulouso! :D Believing in true love, really feeling it, and with Love Story in hand....well, honestly....that's just - everything, right there, that one could ever need or hope for! :) Aaaahhhhhhhh....


    Dawn.
  14. keione_tyger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2005
    star 2
    I've already had my fix for today and now I'm looking at the sexyness, through pictures lol :p
  15. Minela Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 3
    I don't feel fuzzy about the romance, I love it because of the tragedy. I guess that makes me a little sadistic, but mushy-all-lovy-dovy-happily-ever-afters don't do it for me. Esspecially since I feel I intimatly know the characters and their back/future stories...
  16. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Well, I still desperately wish Anakin and Padme could've had their happily-ever-after, darn it all....as they most assuredly *would* have, you know, certainly had it not been for Palpy....for starters....hrmph. :) I still so dearly love to envision how it could have been for our beloved couple, for them to have had the chance to go back to the Lake Country, like Padme dreamed of, to have their child(ren)....I like thinking of that perfect spot that Padme had in mind for the baby's room, no doubt adorned with all the soft, pretty comforting things that the little one could ever possibly need....in the company of roses and soft warmth, too, I'm sure.... And, yes, I do still sincerely, wistfully love thinking about how it *would* have been for them to be there, together, with their little ones....rocking them to sleep, Anakin cradling little newborn Luke and Leia in his arms, Padme perhaps watching such a scene of peace and tranquility with a soft and tender smile on her face, and such love in her eyes....

    Oh, yeah - the truth is, I *do* still earnestly and sincerely wonder "what if"....part of the reason I suspect we're still drawn to the AU fic, because especially when it's done right, it can certainly give us that welcome sense of - oh, if only....the feeling that this is, indeed, how it could have been....*would* have been, for them....if only they'd truly been given a chance. I do still love thinking about it - though at times it's so poignant an ache that it brings tears to my eyes, and how can it not, right? *wry look* - because I know it's the sort of thing they only naturally deserved, after all....for two people so truly, deeply, entirely in love - they deserve only the good things in life, the happy destiny of togetherness that *could*, indeed, have been theirs....I'll always wonder about that, always wish for it, because hey - when two people are so fiercely and passionately, devotedly in love - one only wants them to be *happy*, pure and simple. :D


    Dawn.
  17. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    I don't think it is sadistic. We all know where it goes in the end but we still like it. It's about the fact that even though Padme and Anakin don't stay together at the end of ROTS Anakin is still save by there love. That love being Luke who loves and believes his father is still good and on evil. That he can come back from the Dark Side. :)
  18. SHAD0W-JEDI Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 3
    Qui:

    I appreciate the lenghty, detailed, explanation!

    My purpose in dropping by here was not to provoke, or antagonize, nor to "rain on anyone's parade"....truly! With that in mind, want to tread carefully here..

    What is interesting to me is how we can look at the same thing..the SW movies...and see something so different. Again, I don't say that to provoke or confront. But when I look at the movies...I see few of the things that you so enjoy, with regards to the romance. I see a very sophisticated and nuanced study of how two people with much good in them (especially as regards Padme), with the best of intentions at the start, can, through rationalization, moments of weakness, and yes, the workings of Fate, end up being very bad for one another, can end up taking a path with terrible consequences not just for them, but for many (possibly billions in this case!) around them. I think Padme's assessment of what a romance between her and Anakin would mean, in AOTC, was dead on, and all that she predicted indeed came to pass.... and that by the end their relationship was really "all about Anakin", in his mind. While he would doubtless have protested that he was doing what he was doing for HER, the truth is that he was doing things that would horrify and repulse her, for HIMSELF...because HE could not stand the possibility of losing her. He was not trying to cheat death for HER sake, but for HIS, to spare HIMSELF a pain he could not deal with. I also don't think you can overlook how QUICKLY he was willing to accuse her of betraying him, of being in league with Obi Wan, and how he then resorted to physical violence against her, his pregnant wife, who had risked so much for him.

    Again, I truly dont say these things to provoke or incite. I have no doubt you have heard them all before, in various Threads here and elsewhere. I don't intend to try to spark some sort of running debate - I understand, i think, that this thread is intended to be a place where like-minded folks can socialize and enjoy each others company. I wanted to get some insight into how a person can see the events in TPM/AOTC/ROTS so very differently (from how I see them) and I think you have given me some insight into that -- which I truly appreciate!

    Thanks, truly, and have fun. Whatever our disagreements, we are, after all, fans of the SW story and there are many different ways the story can be appreciated...*S

    Shadow
  19. Qui-Dawn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Well, the reason he angrily flashed up as he did, on Mustafar, in that singularly critical and tragic moment when he glanced up and saw Obi-Wan standing there at the top of the ramp - and one has to understand that from Anakin's unique perspective, given how he was feeling, what he'd been through and had to do, of *course* it's not gonna look very good to his maddened eyes....it *will* come across as dreadful, even downright suspect, simply because he's in such an intense, flashpoint-emotional state that everything is "flicking on the raw" for him....even the tiniest moment serving as a huge provocation for someone who's already been deeply stung, badly and tragically twisted around, used and manipulated so terribly....and found himself in the most untenable of all positions, doing the most horrific of things, simply because he felt that he didn't have a choice....and as he didn't feel that he had one, so too did he *not* have one....in essence.
    Still, though, I think what I was getting at there (and thanks for the nice words, by the way - it *is* profoundly refreshing, believe me) simply was that Anakin, in that one split second of blinded, confused, tumultuous realization, could really only reach that one wild conclusion....yes, it obviously wasn't the right one, but given his situation, his state at that moment - well, now, what else was he supposed to think of it, right....I mean, it really *could* look seriously incriminating, so as badly as anyone could've taken it - the sight of Obi-Wan standing right there - Anakin just took it even worse, and reacted split-second madly, blindly, like a wild creature already hurt, stung and provoked, now feeling goaded enough to lash out even more ferociously....all the more dangerous for it, I suppose.
    And yet, still, despite what he did - reaching out with the Force in a moment's blind fury and pain....and it *was* genuine pain, too, and it's something I always readily discern - the raw anguish in his voice when he's crying out, "You're with *him*! You brought him here to *kill* me!" - there's anger and accusation there, certainly, but what you also hear is that striking undercurrent of pure pain....this is someone who's really hurting, and now he's just lashing out even harder because it hurts so much....as though by lashing out, that will somehow stop the pain. Well, at any rate, the thing is - that immediately after it's happened, there *is* that singular split second where Anakin looks *seriously* shocked by what he's done....he's staring down, blinking a bit, and it's a moment really of - struggling to emerge from the fugue, perhaps....an instant's stunning realization of "What have I *done*?!", indeed....
    It may not last long, unfortunately, what with Obi-Wan standing right there - and that in itself being a provocation that Anakin's raw and maddened soul simply couldn't bear right then, on top of everything else - but still, however fleeting it was, it *did* happen....that moment of shock and dismay, that stricken expression crossing his face as he looks down at his handiwork....we'd seen moments like that before, with him, and always it was this sense of shell-shock, horrified realization, and so forth....the sheer trauma of it, if you will. And even though it was but a short time, in this case, it *was* there....but a breathless moment, maybe two....and I think that says a log, right there. And who knows....perhaps, just perhaps, if that moment of clarity and shell-shocked realization had lasted but a little longer....then it would have been able to make a difference - just as Padme herself managed, for at least that bare but very telling moment earlier.
    H'm, h'm.... *profoundly thoughtful musings* Well, if you really want to see what we're all about, if you'd truly like to see what we do....certainly I do recommend looking back over the many pages upon pages of discussions, musings and wonderings we've had thus far - I'm sure that will prove very....insightful and useful.... ;) If you really want to see it....then you will, because *we* certainly do, and that's
  20. jedi-ES Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 4
    Shadow

    Though it was awhile ago, weren't you hanging around the old LS thread on the AOTC boards back in '02? I'm trying to remember since so many things and so many days have passed since then, but your tagname looks awfully familiar. ;)

    Since I'm betting my suspicion is correct, I know exactly where you are coming from (and I'm not saying you're a troll; just the opposite actually). It will help me respond accordingly since I'm familiar with your positions and past arguments.

    To comment on your first post, I don't think it's clear that she encourages Anakin's more negative traits without affecting his positive traits. Nor do I think that they are terribly matched. Could you please provide some evidence for these positions before I extend my commentary beyond my initial disagreement with them.

    In regards to your second post, I can see where you are coming from and I would argue that it takes a certain POV to see things as most of us see it here (though we all hold distinct POVs on this and everything else). Clearly, because they are special people, their decisions do affect billions of souls. That is the essence of an epic. Their specialness leads to that, not their relationship. And really, it is Anakin more so than Padme that affects those souls. His singular decision to stop Mace leads to the deaths of those billions and nothing else. Yes, Padme was the reason, but Anakin was the "prime mover" of this fate for the galaxy.

    I will agree with you that Anakin delved into the dark side to prevent a future he couldn't deal with, but it was also to save Padme's life and the life of their child. It wasn't like he was saving an inanimate object, but rather 2 people that he loved more than life itself. It wasn't merely to have them around him, but also so that they could enjoy each other's company and love each other. It's more complex than what you currently present.

    also don't think you can overlook how QUICKLY he was willing to accuse her of betraying him, of being in league with Obi Wan, and how he then resorted to physical violence against her, his pregnant wife, who had risked so much for him.

    When I found out about this scene, I was bothered -- partially because I knew that it would be used by some as evidence to contradict the love story. This action is more a comment on Anakin's personality than his love for Padme. Anakin has the type of personality that doesn't take well to betrayal, even if it isn't proven. He concluded, after Padme rejected him, that when he saw Obi-Wan, that they were in league together to kill him and turned on the one that he couldn't believe had betrayed him. And it could easily be argued, given a close observation of Anakin in this scene that he had lost rational thought and "doesn't know what he's doing." And if he really didn't love her or care for her, etc., then his first words in the mask wouldn't be questioning her health and status.

    I personally reacted immediately to the love story (probably on a major archetypal level as well as for other reasons) and my feelings toward the LS haven't changed since my first viewing of AOTC in '02. Why do we react differently to the same material? It's so complicated that you really can't debate it, but merely accept that it's there. Do I see the LS as one of the most, if not the most important aspect of the SW Saga? Absolutely.

    I see two people, two souls, who really match each other and were capable of so much both separately and together. I see great tragedy, which is usually a consequence of great love and affection. I see all the great love stories of the past and I see no greater motivation for Anakin chosing the dark side than for his love of Padme and his desire to save her. As we all knew when seeing the PT, Padme was Anakin's highest priority and we would chose her over anything else: the Jedi, Palpatine, even life itself.

    I could feel that power 3 years ago and I saw it in full force in ROTS. I can't describe it in words. It's an overwhelming feeling and r
  21. Darthana Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 4
    As we all knew when seeing the PT, Padme was Anakin's highest priority and we would chose her over anything else: the Jedi, Palpatine, even life itself.


    Well said. That is what makes this love story so beautiful. Like Dawn said before, they love each other for simply who they are. Their love is unconditional and pure. Of course, that is pretty idealistic, but that is the exact reason I love the love story. :)
    [face_love] It is truly great.
  22. qingauk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    Oh folks.. get the new book on Vader "Dark Lord" I am into first third of it and it does an interesting job of Vader's feelings about in his mechanical suit and how awkward it is..and how he feels about the betrayal or perceived betrayal of Padme and Palpatine. already hating Palpatine for what he did to him. .. good reading so far.
    so check it out..
  23. qingauk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    have others received their new SW Insider? They were sent out the 14th and mine has yet to arrive.
  24. PadmeLeiaJaina Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2002
    star 6
    I just picked up Dark Lord - guess I'll check it out :D

    Thought you guys might enjoy the cover I made for my Anakin/Padme Vignettes that I've posted on my website:

    [image=http://smicketysmom.bravepages.com/Es%20Art/Star%20Wars/Anakin%20Padme%20Cover4%20copy.jpg]
  25. Sabreman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2001
    star 2
    Has anyone read this review of Attack of the Clones (don't worry, it's a positive review :) ):?

    http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/38/clones1.htm

    Bearing in mind that this was written in November 2002, I find note 11 (at the bottom of the page) particularly interesting. The way the writer talks about Anakin's love for Padmé luring him to his destruction, it's almost as if he knew Episode III's story in advance. ;)

    It was interesting to read people's thoughts on the Episode III novel earlier in this thread. What are people's thoughts on the Episode I and II novels?