Defenders of the A&P Love Story Reloaded (Part 3)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by DarthBreezy, Oct 20, 2004.

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  1. Alderaan21 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 1998
    star 4
    Right there in my sig, PLJ. :)

    they cannot understand or accept the concept of Darth Vader rolling around in the grass with the pretty girl, or gushing romantic drivel to her in order to win her heart. After all, Vader's just supposed to stand around and look imposing, right?

    And if he is interested in a woman, he's certainly not supposed to stoop to all that submissive flowery crap. He's supposed to mind trick and intimidate her and all sorts of bad-@** stuff like that. ;)

    Personally, that's one of my favorite things about the love story - despite how well/bad you think it was handled, it definitely makes you do a double take to see Darth Vader doing things like rolling around in the grass with his dream girl or feeding her fruit. There's no way you can't be forced to look at his character in a different light, and personally, I love what I'm seeing. :)
  2. MissPadme Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    AnakinsLuv--Yes, I can relate! Worse yet, I've had similar things happen to me while among SW fans! Sometimes I end up getting into an argument, sometimes I sit there and seethe, and once I almost left a collectors' meeting because of Hayden bashing. Not everyone was doing it, but once one guy got the ball rolling the people who agreed with him kept it going.

    I will say though what this guy at the party did to you was beyond just disagreeing with you on SW. He was being flat out rude, obnoxious, and cruel. He was getting mileage off of putting you down in front of other people. He should have stopped when he realized he was offending you and your so-called friends should have stepped in to tell him to knock it off instead of encouraging him. I think you saw their true colors in regards to you not SW or the prequels. Know what I'm sayin'?

    PLJ--I'll join with rhonderoo and Alderaan21 in asking you to consider sending us something at sagajournal.com. Your analyses are exactly what we are looking for! I thoroughly enjoyed part one of your Deconstructing Padmé essay! I've been struggling for a long time with my long Padmé story, but the untouchable, sexless image as Queen is one that figures into the story. That appearance was chosen for her for a reason.

    qingauk--I've seen those pics of Hayden in Tokyo. Yum!

    --MissPadme
  3. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    AnakinsLuv I think a big problem people have with the love story is that they can't wrap their minds around the idea that Anakin Skywalker was once a good man, capable of loving and being loved.

    Well, if you'd like a "bashers" perspective, allow me to chime in. I don't have a problem at all with Vader being a romantic. A number of good fictional villians have a romantic side. My problem is the romance goes from point A to Z, skipping B - Y, in two hours. It just wasn't believable to me. Admittedly, this happens in a lot of movies, because you have time limitations. I know Alfred Hitchcock, my favorite director, was the worst on this. Take Spellbound, for example. What was Ingrid Bergman's character thinking!?! Even still, love or hate the movie, it bugs me when directors do that. Regarding the PT, I would have liked to see the romance given time over two movies (like Han and Leia were over ESB and ROJ) and not be the focus of a single chapter.
  4. qingauk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    Oh MissPadme, that quote in your sig.from Jedi Trial has me all anxious to get into the book! I hope it arrives tomorrow.
  5. stacysatrip Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    Exactly. There were time limitations. I also think GL caved a bit to his snip-happy editor, foregoing developing the love story fully for more action scenes. The novelization really gives a lot more depth to the story. I think keeping the family scenes in would even have added another dimension.

    That being said, what's happening in the love story is that for most of the film, Padmé and to a lesser extent Anakin are trying to fight their feelings and hold them inside. Where you see the truth is in the sidelong glances, the subtle elements of Natalie's and Hayden's performances. But it's only when faced with death that Padmé breaks down and reveals the feelings she's been struggling with all along.

    In addition, I think people expected this romance to be a rehash of the Han/Leia one--very combative in nature. But it wasn't meant to be that way.

    I suppose that if you didn't pick up on Hayden and Nat's chemistry, you never will. I for one think they sizzle together, and I totally bought that Padmé fell head over heels for Anakin--even though she fought it every step of the way.

    And you know, it's really not "believable" that people can levitate objects, choke people with their thoughts, that there are robots who are essentially like mechanical humans, that spaceships can travel at the speed of light, that people can travel from planet to planet like we travel from country to country...but we go with it. It wasn't necessarily believable to me when Alderaan was destroyed that basically all Leia did was grimace in response. It wasn't believable that when Owen and Beru were fried, all Luke did was look away, then go. Lots of things about these films aren't believable. But we still love them.
  6. Alderaan21 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 1998
    star 4
    Looks like we get to see a bit of P/A in the upcoming teaser - the current flash ad on the OS for the trailer features a shot of our pair. :)

    (Here's a [link=http://www.padmeswardrobe.com/images/other/padme01.jpg]screenshot[/link] of it.)

    Far as the love story pacing - the first time I saw AotC, that was the part I was most disappointed with. However, over further viewings, I came to notice a lot more details that I was too overwhelmed to notice in previous viewings - let's face it. The first viewing of a SW movie on the big screen is almost the ultimate in sensory overload. With all the elaborate visuals, sound effects, action scenes - the subtler bits get overlooked, bits that when you look at them, make the progression of things like the love story look more natural, less choppy. I've said in the past that if you cut the love story from AotC and pasted it completely intact in a much smaller scale film - say, LAAH - I don't think it'd get near the trashing it did. Because with smaller movies, you're more focused on the actors and their performances than being bombarded with visuals, etc. (To date, some of my absolute favorite bits of the romance are the extremely subtle bits I didn't notice in early viewings - the little gasp Padme gives when Anakin floats the fruit to her, the multiple times her eyes move up and down his body in the morning meditation scene. They're very understated, yes, but they speak volumes as far as the feelings they indicate.) To a point I do agree with the idea that you shouldn't have to see a movie several times to "get" one of the key plotlines - but that's largely a subjective thing. For some people I know, they love story did work on the first viewing. *shrugs* Not that I don't think the pacing could have been a little better - but I think that was a problem with the editing of AotC overall, not just the romance. (Though simply looking at the scenes on the DVD shows a clear bias against the 'slower' bits of the film.) I would have left in the extended Naboo arrival scene, and I think that would have helped immensely. That's the main nit I have in the progression of the romance - there should've been something between the Queen's conference and the kiss scene, or at the very least, a little more done with the scenes before that, which I think the arrival scene would've done.
  7. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Hm, hm, I wonder....the estimate on the chapters.ca site said that I shouuld be expecting delivery of "Jedi Trial" (and the other book my mom ordered) within maybe a week at the latest....but do you think it's outside of the realm, as it were, for me to already be hoping and anticipating that it'll be here by tomorrow? :) Or maybe mid-week at the absolute latest? Gee, I'm not even a little bit wild-and-antsy for it here, am I.... ;) On the other hand, yeah....I've certainly been enjoying myself plenty in reading through some o' the Jedi Quest books I picked up (two down, the rest to come soon enough, methinks!) - and while I suppose that is, of course, sustaining me well enough so far....does the job quite nicely to hold one over, I reckon....still, all's I know now is that the sooner I have "Jedi Trial" in my eager, desperate little hands, the better by *far*! :D *throwing mental lasso around her incoming copy of "Jedi Trial" to wrangle it in that much quicker*


    Dawn. (who absolutely fell for Hayden and the Love Story from the very first instant, and falls for it more and more with each passing day, and is constantly and happily reminded of that)
  8. waheennay Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2000
    star 4
    I can't wait to see the teaser trailer! That shot looks like it's in the same scene as the "Sleepless Knight" pic. People who don't get why Padme is with Anakin apparently haven't heard the countless stories of women who see their husbands and boyfriends through with their drug and alcohol addictions and try to help them cope. They stick by them and as they try to quit and rehabilitate. So many women see a guy who's in trouble like that and think and "He's in so much pain" and "I can help him!"
  9. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    Exactly. There were time limitations. I also think GL caved a bit to his snip-happy editor, foregoing developing the love story fully for more action scenes.

    Yes, this didn't help. Given the importance of the love story, it shouldn't have been a background plot. The family scene would have added a lot. Basically, however it was done, I really think they needed to establish a strong relationship prior to the return to Tatooine. Establishing it afterwards damages its crediblity to me.


    And you know, it's really not "believable" that people can levitate objects, choke people with their thoughts, that there are robots who are essentially like mechanical humans, that spaceships can travel at the speed of light, that people can travel from planet to planet like we travel from country to country...

    True, but these are "out worldly" elements, things that don't exist in our world at all. Romance is a real world element, and the audience expects to be able to relate to it in a way they can understand.
  10. GunraysLawyer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 4
    Sorry, guys, but I have to sort of agree with my immediately preceeding poster...The execution of the love story could have and should have been handled better. In fact, it should have been the pplot focus of the movie. Terrible editing and Lucas's obsession with making a less than 2.5 hour movie didn't help!

    That having been said, I still think that the A/P love story is more believably executed on-screen than the H/L love story (Sorry, but I saw no chemistry whatsoever between those two). But, then again, my problems with the H/L love story in execution (not in concept), both in writing and on film, are legion.

    I just mark up the problems with it to the sort of problems that any movie might have, and the fact that we all might make things different. For example, I would have made Anakin 3 to 5 years older in TPM.
  11. MissPadme Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1998
    star 4
    Hey, wait is this the Defenders of the A&P Love Story thread? Really? I can't tell.

    I would like to know why on 99.9% of this board, you can bash the actors, bash Lucas, bash the movies, bash the fans who like the forementioned, say utterly vile things, and have nothing happen to you. In this one little place here, we're beating up on the aspect of a movie we allegedly like.

    But make an oblique reference about bashers and we get our heinies banned.

    I'm not even sure why I bother with this stupid site.

    --MissPadme
  12. qingauk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah.. it came!! I am so excited now. I can get into Jedi Trial and bury myself in the love between our couple during a terrible war. I know it is not the main focus of the book but I am still looking forward to reading about their relationship. I see they still did not fix the scar on Anakin's face on the book cover. :) His scar is on the right side but they put it on the left on the book cover. I have every silly milimeter of that face memorized so I notice when they present it differently. I have two lovely pictures of Hayden's face here on my Anakin bulletin board! I now have 'sleepless night' as desktop.
    Happy dance that the book is here.
    I also got the Ed Wood dvd spec ed. Has anyone seen that?
  13. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Oh, yeah, well do I know it and totally sympathize, to be sure, MissPadme....one wonders if you wouldn't know it to look at the thread of things here, over the last little while, that this was actually the Love Story *Defenders'* Thread....in other words, where people go when they supposedly *like* it. I don't know as I'm getting that particular impression, the last little while....and I can't think of anything more utterly confounding or distressing than that. Yes, if people have differing and unique perspectives on some things, fine, so be it. But really....look at the thread we're in here....one naturally presumes that this is the place where people are saying *good* things about the Love Story. Not, you know - the total opposite.... Mildly vexed here, I must admit....I mean, if I'm coming in here, of all places, and finding myself confronted with increasingly negative commentary about the Love Story....*here*, indeed!....well, I simply can't think of anywhere else to go..... *sighs ruefully*


    Dawn.
  14. AnakinsLuv Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2004
    star 3
    geo3 mentioned on a Hayden list that the cape looked to her like wings, making Anakin look even more like a fallen angel.

    Oh!!! I love this!!! Didn't see it before but now I can....there's just so many different things to see in this poster...it's very deep [face_mischief] .

    mal
    So sorry about your dog!! That must be miserable for her :(

    PLJ
    That was a fantastic character analysis of Padme!! I thouroughly enjoyed reading it...you made some very good points that I hadn't really thought about yet. Can't wait to read the rest!!

    Now, why can't people see what we do? They would just enjoy the PT so much more!!

    I'm so glad that many of you can relate to my recent experience...it's really too bad that so many people out there don't like the love story. I have to admit that I, too, thought that it was really rushed at first viewning. I was sooooooo excited about the love story!! I was actually a little dissapointed because I had thought that it was going to be the "Titanic" of SW movies from what I saw in the "Forbidden Love" trailer. I walked away the first time wanting a little more...

    I really agree with stacysatrip and Aldreaan21 in that it was in the subtle things that I noticed later...the little glances, the gasps and things that made the love story even better for me and those are the things that the bashers that hate the ls don't see or can't see. I also believe that because Padme and Anakin were holding their feelings back until the end that it was the subtle things that made it believable. The people that don't understand or get it must not understand the characters as well as the ones who do. I was very satisfied the way the book portrayed the ls...gave it much more time to unfold and there were just more scenes that I would have loved to see in the movie. But I totally understand why they have to cut here and there for pacing and such....too bad.

    Don't get me wrong, I loved the love story the first time I saw it and I bought it even though it seemed a little rushed. I love the fact that I had always wanted a glimps into the past of what Luke and Leia's parents were like and what type of person their mother was and how their father was a good, beautiful man (and of course, watching Hayden as a jedi is one of the most yummy things ever!, and I also think that Hayden and Natalie make the hottest couple ever!!) and now I was getting that look into the past....it was wonderful and dream-like, but I just wanted more. I love it now more than ever because watching AOTC time after time I notice more and more.

    I think the reason why the A/P love story sparks so much fan fiction is because we love the couple and WE WANT MORE!!! We can still love the ls with all our hearts but to want more isn't a bad thing. :)

    I think it's part of the reason why we can't wait to see the next movie....I want more love scenes!! I need more love scenes...or basically just more scenes with Anakin and Padme!!! [face_love]

    BTW....I'm a little behind in my reading...I picked up "Tatooine Ghost" and "The Courtship of Princess Leia" (B&N didn't have "Jedi Trial" yet :( )....which one should be read first? I'm guessing the latter...

    -AnakinsLuv
  15. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Well, I'm not familiar with COPL (though to say it's produced some pretty polarized reactions, from what I've heard, would be vastly understating the point....ouch!) - but it's quite safe to say that you needn't have read that in order to tremendously enjoy "Tatooine Ghost"....so I'd say go for it, then, and take up TG first. :) May even be no reason whatsoever to bother with COPL....heck, I'm perfectly fine with having not read it! Then again....prequel-era gal here, all the way....and that, of course, is why "Tatooine Ghost" did so tremendously appeal, and proved to be so eminently enjoyable and satisfying - because it did bridge that timespan, and one really got the sense from it of having come full-circle....the intricate nature of all their destinies, so fascinatingly interwoven....really makes the story even more fulfilling, is what I've found. :) Definitely there's that greater, stronger sense of completion....because of the PT. Because of Anakin and Padme's love, which brought forth Luke and Leia....because of The Love Story. Thus saith I. :)


    Dawn.
  16. mal-et-mysterieux Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2004
    I would've loved to see the love story have more time in the movie (who wouldnt want more hayden and/or hayden/nat action?!)

    however, the fact that the LS had little screen time devoted to it exclusively, and few hints during other scenes, emphasizes the fact that its forbidden.

    I thought of that just as I was typing...man i love these movies!


    Y'all will be happy to know that I converted my friend into a Star Wars fan (specifically a LS fan)...she used to hate SW, but one day she was over my house and we were babysitting my sister who wanted to watch starwars, so i put it on and wouldn't let her leave the room untill the movie was over (we watched AotC) ...now she's begging her parents for the DVDs, and searching the web for hayden pics!

    Also, my dog got her bandages taken off, and she is now wearing a cone so she wont lick the stitches. So far her leg is recovering the way it's supposed to, but we'll know for sure in 4 weeks.



    EDIT: Ahh! I forgot to take off my halloween sock! this is darththunderbird
  17. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Excellent, excellent, darththunderbird....see, now, *that's* the kind of thing we should be hearing in here....that's the very sort of positive, encouraging spin that we of course have this thread, *our* thread, here for in the first place! That is, indeed, the whole reason why....thanks oodles for sharing that lovely little piece of entirely heartening news. :) Now, *that* is what we should be focussing on here, wouldn't you all say? Hm? Okay, then. :D

    Congrats again on having recruited another one to the Love side of the Force, though, for sure....see, we shall yet rule the world....our numbers swell....I promise you.... ;)


    Dawn.
  18. stacysatrip Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    It's getting late, but everyone please remember--no matter which way you're leaning, GO VOTE!
  19. JenX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    I would like to know why on 99.9% of this board, you can bash the actors, bash Lucas, bash the movies, bash the fans who like the forementioned, say utterly vile things, and have nothing happen to you. In this one little place here, we're beating up on the aspect of a movie we allegedly like.

    But make an oblique reference about bashers and we get our heinies banned.


    Well, since you asked...on 100% of this board you can say positive things about the actors, Lucas and the movies. Bashing fans is another thing altogether. Attacking fans, whether they be Gushers or Bashers, is against the rules. Hence the heinie banning.

    People have been banned on this thread, and they have been banned on the Bashers' Sanctuary thread.

    **Looks at title of thread** Err, I thought Anakin and Padme were quite sweet in that meadow scene.
  20. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Oh, enough, already! *vexed* Look, MissPadme is of course totally right here - since this *is*, by definition, the Love Story *Defenders'* Thread....let's be saying nice things about it, then, shall we? For it is, indeed, one thing to be saying that maybe you wished they'd kept the deleted family scenes in there (of course it would have been nice, but I personally also enjoy having them on the bonus disk as well....yes, even separately....it's entirely fine with me, however it's done....it all works out, it's all according to the design of GL, also known as Da Man - and *that* is what matters most!) - but to be going on about how the Love Story "sucked" because it was "rushed" (!!!)....that is, of course, another matter entirely. And if people think that way - *why*, exactly, would they be here? One look at the title of this thread tells you *everything* that you should need to know....

    I have said it before and I will absolutely, unequivocally state it again, here and now....loud, proud, vocal, fierce, determined....I *love* The Love Story. I loved it completely from the very first time I saw AOTC, I believed in it completely, passionately, wholeheartedly....and I only love it even more now with every passing day, each subsequent viewing. It only gets better and better! 'Nuff said!


    Dawn.
  21. stacysatrip Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2002
    star 4
    Jen-X

    Of course, some of us here fail to understand how hating something makes you a fan of it. I don't get it, anyway.

    And I'm not baiting, before the powers that be accuse me of it; I'm asking a legitimate question.

    You know, I've been a fan of the Chicago Cubs since I was 10 years old. For most of that time, they've sucked. They're terrible, they're hopeless...but I still love them and enjoy watching them. I'm not going to bad mouth the players, etc. just because they don't win.

    (Not that I think the prequels suck--I don't, it's just the best analogy I can think of.)


    Qui-Dawn and MissPadme: My only disappointment in the love story is that we didn't see more of it. In fact, when I watch the DVD, many times I'll just skip ahead to the Ani/Padmé scenes. Who cares about another asteroid chase or fight scene, LOL. As I said, I totally bought into the idea that Anakin and Padmé fell in love. It was cinematic fantasy in that it seemed to happen so quickly (but did you guys see Garden State, where Zach Braff falls in love with Natalie Portman in four days), but it was real in that for once we see a "classical" romance on film in which the two love birds don't always say and do exactly the right thing or behave in the smoothest, most romantically savvy way.
  22. JenX Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 3
    Of course, some of us here fail to understand how hating something makes you a fan of it. I don't get it, anyway.

    Well, to use your sports analogy, just because a team goes through a sucky period, doesn't stop you from being a fan. With Star Wars, just because someone might think that the last few years has produced bad SW films, doesn't mean they stop being a fan.

    ...but all of this has next to nothing to do with the A&P love story, so I won't go into this further. Just thought it was polite to answer the legitimate question posed to me.

    I think Anakin and Padme make a good couple.

  23. Qui-Dawn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 5
    Oh, and AnakinsLuv, hon, I've gotta say that I'm so, *so* sorry to hear what a dreadful time you had of it for Hallowe'en, confronted with....well, with what you were there....I really am sorry about that, and you of course have my total and profound, very profuse sympathies. :) Far too well do I know what it's like....sometimes I too have just sat and quietly stewed over it, when I've been in similar circumstances....other times I've just gotten up and walked right outta the room, refusing to have any part of what's only setting my teeth right on edge and *really* proving to be rather irksome, to say the least.... Now, though, it's gotten to the point where I'm unfortunately forced to be *very* wary about who I even mention The Love Story or even SW in general to anymore....way I figure it is, it really does behoove me to be rather discriminating about that - because in the past I've only been hurt otherwise.
    It is, after all, why I keep coming here - why this thread is my sanctum sanctorum....I always have that much, at least, to retreat to - or to fall back on, if you will....I really think such a thing is more than important, it's downright essential. However....I am yet always on the lookout for more people to potentially convert to the Love Story....always am I very attentive for it, and always do I have my ears pricked right up, hoping, waiting....because I *know* that they've gotta be out there - heck, *we* all are! :D Hey - how many people do we have to sway over to The Love Story before we get the free toaster oven? ;)
    Dawn.
  24. AnakinsLuv Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2004
    star 3
    Qui-Dawn --That's why we love you...so passionate and bold!! I think we all would agree that you and MissPadme are true "Defenders"!! Thanx gals :)

    darththunderbird --Wow!! I'm overjoyed that you could convert someone!!! That is some cool beans!! I converted a whole family once into Buffy fans but I have yet to convert someone to the love story :( . I mean, I guess I could count my babysitter, but she already was somewhat of a fan...I just made her into an even bigger one!! I guess it also depends on the type of people that you pick as friends...they have to be convertable!! Yes, MissPadme , I think I will need to get some new friends if I want to gush my SW fandom in front of others, but even though I know their true feelings about SW I also know they still love me ;) .

    One more ls fan out there!!

    stacysatrip --That's a really good analogy...I wish that I would have thought of that at the party!! BTW, what's the last line of your sig. from? Sounds intriguing!! (Actually, it sound like something from Buffy, but I could be wrong...something I've forgotten).

    --AnakinsLuv
  25. AnakinsLuv Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2004
    star 3
    Thanks so much for the sympathies Qui-Dawn !!! See, that is what is so great about this thread!!! Lovely gushers to run home to!!! :D

    What would we do without each other?

    I would have loved to have one of ya'll there by my side at the party...we could've taken that #&@^$% down!!! [face_laugh]

    So......

    How excited are we to see the Teaser in less than 2 days!!! [face_dancing] WOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOO!!! Has anyone been counting down the actual hours, minutes?

    Ha!! stacysatrip , I totally ff to the love scenes all the time!!

    -AnakinsLuv
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