PT Defending Anakin and the Tusken

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by andresfelix, Aug 7, 2014.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. andresfelix Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2014
    star 1
    Proof that the Tuskens are evil:
    1. They kidnapped an innocent woman who was doing nothing more than picking mushrooms off vaporators on her own property.
    2. They took her back to their encampment, where they strung her up to a post crucifixion-style.
    3. They took turns beating her with gaffi sticks, leaving her with broken bones and internal hemorrhaging.
    4. They did this, day in and day out, for a period of a month.
    5. A search party went after them, a search party of 30 people--the Tuskens killed 26 of those 30, and chopped Cliegg's leg off.

    The Tusken Raiders were brutal savages and probably did the same to others. Anakin did everyone a favor by wiping them out.
    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  2. Deltron3030 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2014
    star 1
    1. Did all the Tuskens do that collectively so they all deserved to die? Even the dog and children?
    5. They could have been defending their territory. And in a life or death situation, would the search party have possibly killed the entire encampment like Anakin would do? In other words they would be justified in their violent response because the humans did eventually treat them brutally.
    Last edited by Deltron3030, Aug 7, 2014
  3. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5

    I'm gonna do everyone a favor by going back in time and wiping out our brutal savage ancestors.

    By why bother going back in time? Kidnapping, torture, territorial war? Let's do everyone a favor and wipe ourselves out.
  4. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    I think I'll bring the old phrase two wrongs don't make a right into this. Yes, the actions of the Tuskens were deplorable. No, Anakin should not have unilaterally and indiscriminately killed them all. The correct thing to have done would have been to report the incident to the relevant authority.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Oh boy, it's been a long time since we had one of these debates:

    You had me until your last point.

    I think the horrific nature of what the Tuskens did to Shmi is often lost in this debate.

    BUT...it still doesn't justify Anakin wiping out the entire camp. Even Anakin knew that. Not everyone there was guilty, and Anakin was not concerned with who was and who wasn't. He just went ape****.

    And going by EU sources, he didn't really do the Mos Eisley/Anchorhead area any favors.

    In Tatooine Ghost, the Tuskens continued to kidnap settlers and sacrifice them to the "angry ghost."

    In Kenobi, the Tuskens were pretty spooked by Anakin but the Tusken/settler conflict was not solved either.

    I'm not about to defend what the Tusken men did to Shmi. It was disgusting. And if I were on a jury trying Anakin, I would convict him for second-degree murder or manslaughter, not premeditated murder, given the circumstances.

    But saying that Anakin "did everyone a favor" or that the entire race deserved to be wiped out is over the top.
  6. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 3
    I agree with you that Anakin shouldn't have killed the Tuskens.

    However, I don't think he had the option to report the incicent to the relevant authority. Tatooine is a lawless planet, there is no legal judicial system. It's law of the jungle, pure anarchy. Even if there was some kind of law, there is still no authority to enforce it. Law that can't be enfored is useless, think about "international law". There was no chance for Anakin to bring them to justice in a lawful way. Just like Jabba the Hutt couldn't ask "Tatooine police" to confiscate Han Solo's assets. It's a "system" where the stronger individual wins. The Tuskens were stronger than Shmi and her people, Anakin was stronger than the Tuskens. Han Solo was stronger than Greedo.

    Of course, Anakin shouldn't have killed them from our moral system's POV.
    That said, for better or worse and emotions aside, he "only" followed the planet's barbarous "rules".
    Last edited by Samnz, Aug 7, 2014
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, there really was no authority and no good options, because it was Tatooine.

    Only bad options and really bad options, and he went with really bad.
    natureboy76 likes this.
  8. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    "And not just the men. But the women and the children too."

    Even Anakin knows he killed innocent beings, hence the differentiation. I'm not sure what's left to defend.

    Not to mention that he's a Jedi.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Aug 7, 2014
  9. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    In a perfect scenario, Anakin would retrieve his mother and defend himself against any Tusken aggression. The only thing is, the sight of his dying mother made him lose his mind; he was no longer acting in self-defense, but revenge and aggression (definitely not the Jedi way). While many were murderers, Lucas put in the 'women and children' part to make the distinction that Anakin was not justified in the massacre. We can understand his motivations, but that doesn't make it acceptable.
  10. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    It reminded me a little of the David Gemmell novel The Sword in The Storm, when the hero pretty much does the same thing - to the home village of the people who killed his wife. It was published a bit before AoTC as I recall.

    And a point is made of how child-killing is never acceptable - and that those killings will haunt him forever.
    only one kenobi likes this.
  11. Chancellor Yoda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2014
    star 2
    I agree with SlashMan , even if the tuskens were murders, Anakin took revenge on the tuskens including women and children which is certainly not the Jedi way.
  12. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Which is one of the things Palpatine takes advantage of, when he's gotten Anakin to kill Dooku - comparing the killing of Dooku to the killing of the Tuskens:

    "It's only natural - he cut off your arm, and you wanted revenge. It wasn't the first time, after all..."

    Or, as the novel puts it "Have you ever thought that the Jedi way might not be the right way?"
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Aug 7, 2014
  13. deadly jp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2014
    star 1
    I disagree with you Anakin should kill the tuskens they are animals, they cant bring shmi back to life so why not kill them???
    If that was your mother would you just forgive them or slaughter them for what they did.

    Remember everyone lives once, anakin can never speak to his mother again the person he loved and missed for all them years.
    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  14. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
  15. sarlaccsaurs-rex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 3
    Why is no one allowed to hate the tuskens? I would defend the women and children but there is no reason to they all grow up to be vicious monsters.

    1. They sacrifice each other to the sarlacc (their god in the EU)

    2. They snipe innocent podracers

    3. They kidnap Shmi for no apparent reasons and torture and do unspeakable things to her.

    4.They attack Luke and 3-P0 for no reason.

    5. countless other EU atrocities.
    Last edited by sarlaccsaurs-rex, Aug 8, 2014
    deadly jp likes this.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Of course people are allowed to blindly hate every single Tusken as if they all participated in Shmi's torture and murder.

    Genocide has, historically, been a fantastic means of eliminating every member of a group when a few in the group do something monstrous. Genocide should be used more often.

    White settlers in the US certainly did well to try to wipe out all Native Americans after a few settlers got scalped. Too bad they didn't try harder. I'm sure Native American kids grew up to be scalpers too.
    Valairy Scot, TX-20 and Cael-Fenton like this.
  17. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Ok, I'll bite:

    Even if that was true (which it isn't), what kind of logic is that? Are you implying that animals should be killed because of their nature?

    Seriously? Ethics aside, does killing them bring Shmi back to life? No.

    Neither. Who's even asking for forgiveness?

    So...?
  18. sarlaccsaurs-rex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 3
    *Bitting my tounge so hard its bleeding*
  19. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Hate leads to suffering, bro.

    Do you even Star Wars?
    Darth_Pevra, TX-20, Alexrd and 2 others like this.
  20. deadly jp Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2014
    star 1
    Thank you, I don't understand why some people back up the tuskens for when they done nothing good but torture and kill innocents for no reason.
  21. Cushing's Admirer Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    Bad acts don't justify equal bad acts. Mercy is powerful. What Anakin did isn't just.
    Lord Chazza and TX-20 like this.
  22. Big Fat'Lya Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2013
    star 1
    Why do the majority seem to assume that the Tusken women are innocent? In some tribal cultures, torture of prisoners is specifically a female responsibility.

    I'm never comfortable with Anakin's line, because a Jedi should know better than to assign people to different categories of compassion/worth/responsibility based on biology. Now, it's possible what Anakin meant was that the male Tuskans attacked him directly because in their culture it's their job to engage enemies and the females do not; therefore, he was drawing a distinction between those he killed in defence/combat and those he just attacked even if they weren't fighting him - still potentially problematic in terms of his ethical evaluation but fair enough - but still, the "women and children" line is not one I like. Not in reality and not from a Jedi.
    Last edited by Big Fat'Lya, Aug 8, 2014
    sarlaccsaurs-rex likes this.
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    spoiler for Kenobi (open)
    The main warrior Tusken in that novel was a woman.


    Regardless...the bottom line is that Anakin did not only kill the Tuskens responsible for his mother's death. And he knew he didn't.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Aug 8, 2014
  24. TX-20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 4
    Anakin hates sand, it gets everywhere.
    Lord Chazza likes this.
  25. sarlaccsaurs-rex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2007
    star 3
    So its okay for the tuskens to kill everyone else on Tatooine. But not for the tatooine settlers or hell even the native jawas to kill tuskens? In addition to them murdering and torturing Anakins mother, people on tatooine generally despise the tuskens anyways (RAIDERS RAIDERS RAIDERS.) They murder, pilage, salvage, and possibly do something inappropriate to mention on this site to female tatooine settlers. (But that's a discussion for another time) I never see anyone crying for Jango, jabbas henchmen, the sepratist leaders, or the innocent imperial personel on both death stars... so yea I'm not crying for these nasty salvages or their women and children.
    deadly jp likes this.
Moderators: Bazinga'd