Deleted Scenes... the Rant Thread

Discussion in 'Plymouth (SW England)' started by Sebulba_Sloan, Jan 17, 2003.

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  1. Sebulba_Sloan RSA Alumni

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Okay... how necessary is it to have Anakin fighting with a infant Greedo, and then for one of his mates to tell him that one day he'll "come to a bad end" (ref. Mos Eisley Cantina).

    And all those aliens that looked like something out of Disney- in the Pod Race line-up.

    Your comments please :)
  2. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    they sucked, thats why they were deleted

    you want pointless check out some of the AOTC ones
  3. Sebulba_Sloan RSA Alumni

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Like when Amidala addresses the senate about the attack on her life? That is one of the worse acted scenes in the film*


    *excludes all scenes including Hayden Christiansonofgodboywhocan'tact
  4. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    i liked Hayden's performance and wouldn't question it in anyway [face_laugh]

    i wouldn't have minded that scene if it was acted better. i quite like the Mace and Obi scene by the Jedi starfighter, it was a good scene but actually totally pointless as it reiterated some earlier info
  5. Sebulba_Sloan RSA Alumni

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Hmmm... I'll go and watch it now and give you my opinion on it :p
  6. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    Like when Amidala addresses the senate about the attack on her life? That is one of the worse acted scenes in the film*


    *excludes all scenes including Hayden Christiansonofgodboywhocan'tact



    I totally disagree with you on this Seb. The scene of Amidala addressing the Senate I thought was the most powerful acting that Portman did. She wasn't wooden at all and I thought her impassioned address had all the right emotion and expression that was needed. Having said that I don't think it would have worked in the context of the film and therefore was right to be deleted.

    And how can you say that Hayden Christensen can't act? I am sorry but I disagree with that. I think Christensen was one of the better aspects of AOTC. It was Padme's character that was the problem - she was wooden and stilted.

    Anakin on the other hand was very well portrayed. Christensen brought real depth to the part showing the complexities of Anakin and his struggles with his own dark side. I think that most of us could probably draw something of our own character from that of Anakin. Whether it be the need to find our own path, rebelling against those in authority or confronting our own failing, we probably have all been there at some point or another.

    What I thought was particularly good about Anakin was that there was so much going on. He is a deep and interesting character and that owes a lot to Christensen's portrayal. I still think the "garage scene" is incredibly powerful and the emotion is writ large on the screen. You can see the struggle that Anakin is going through - how he wants to be this good person and the conflict between his duty to the Jedi and that to those he loves. He is clearly not a bad person although he is fuelled with jealousy and hate and that makes him shift towards his dark path.

    Anakin is inherently good and the fact that he is falling inexorably towards the dark side is a truly tragic story. I for one will certainly want to see more of the same in Episode III :)
  7. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    I agree with both of you to a certain degree. While Hayden did have some very emotional scenes which were (IMO) perfectly performed (Luke, if you didn't like his confession scene then you should burn) there were a few scenes where he was quite wooden. I wasn't a fan of his performance at Shmi's funeral because i thought he didn't have nearly enough emotion. and his delivery of some lines is in totally the wrong tone and pace. He does make a great evil expression though. I think one of the main problems however was the dialogue and if it had been better written then we could have seen Hayden give a wider range of emotion and depth to his character (i'm going to get that Hales at the Honition con :p)

    Portman was wooden as ever, but she's really hot :p
  8. Yoshee RSA FFUK/EUROPE, CR Emeritus: London

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2002
    star 6
    excludes all scenes including Hayden Christiansonofgodboywhocan'tact

    LMAO [face_laugh]

    Glad i'm not alone on that subject! :D

  9. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    Personally the best bit of acting I have ever seen in a Star Wars movie was by Hayden- in his confession scene. Fantastic! :D
  10. Sebulba_Sloan RSA Alumni

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
    Truthfully, I like his acting when it comes to the darkside (ie. the workshop scene), but in the 'car chase' at the beginning of AOTC, he really is pitiful.
  11. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    that's basically what i was saying Luke
  12. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    I think Stuey hit the problem right on the head as it were! The issue is with the script and direction and not with Christensen's ability as an actor. After all, how can he be so superb in parts and mediocre in others? All actors are only as good as their material and even a really good actor can struggle to make a convincing performance with a dodgy script.

    I still maintain that Christensen was good throughout. Sure, he struggled a bit in places but as I have pointed out that is more to do with the limitations of script and direction. He conveys a very interesting portrayal of Anakin and one who, IMO, is somewhat unhinged, which is great. After all, he is going to fall to the dark side, so that sense of something dark and slightly unbalanced, is just what is needed.

    I also disagree that he didn't convey enough emotion at Shmi's funeral. I thought that was quite beautiful. The way he was trying to fight back his emotion and the sinisterness of his promise not to fail again. I think that was a brilliant foretaste of what is to come.
  13. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    I don't think you can blame it totally on the direction or the script. Alot of scenes Hayden truly brings out the character with such talent that can't be directed like in the confession after the slaughter (i always bring it back to this but it's sooo good) and then he'll mess up even the simplest delivery. I don't feel the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan nor do i believe the 'witty' banter they had in the speeder chase. The OT had cheesy dialogue but it was delievered so well that it was good. Hayden is a good actor but he's limited. He can convey some emotions as well as anyone i've ever seen and when angry he can make any line convincing but he can't seem to show a range of emotions and nor can Portman. There's very little chemistry between them, definitely not enough to convince me either of them would be prepared to sacrifice their lives and commitments for the other as they eventually must. you could say that's because he's a jedi they shouldn't be emotional blah blah blah but when he's a sith i want him to be just a ball of raw emotion and i'm not sure if he can pull it off
  14. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    I still think that the material that an actor has to work with has a strong bearing on their performance. If the script isn't up to it then it is difficult to make it believable. The other big difference between Ep II and the original trilogy, is that this time there is so much more blue screen. Virtually no sets were built and can you imagine how hard it must be to act and react against things, which aren't there?

    I also think Lucas is a particularly weak director. He has admitted himself that he finds it difficult to deal with the actors. And whatever doesn't work the first time he gets corrected when he edits the film. He simply doesn't elicit the best from his actors.

    Okay, some actors can probably carry it off and can cope with a slightly dodgy script and lack of direction. However, Christensen is very young and probably not that experienced as an actor. Therefore, it must have been hard for him to make the role as good as it was.

    I do agree with you on the point that there is no chemistry between him and Portman. This however does come out more in some of the deleted scenes with Padme's family. These IMO should have been left in, as they provide a greater depth and understanding of Padme's character.

    The reason why I don't think there is chemistry between them is simple. Anakin is a head-strong slightly unhinged young man with a lot of passion, clearly. Padme on the other hand is about as exciting as paint drying and as cold and frigid as Hoth! While that might create an interesting conflict and certainly some friction, Padme is so emotionless that there is nothing. She is plain, boring and uninteresting. How could anyone spark with someone like that?
  15. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    I don't think the scenes at Padme's house added anything to their relationship, with her family Anakin barely said anything and in her room it was just to build on her past, i don't think it added much to their relationship and was therefore left out.

    I totally agree with your point about Lucas as a director (my fav is ESB and that's the one he had least involvment with) and i know it must have been hard for Hayden because of all the points you raised and while i empathise with that i don't want Episode 3 ruined because the lead character is inexperienced. I'm not suggesting replace Hayden but he needs to really put his heart into it and try to build up as much experience as possible in the short time before prinicple photography starts.

    I don't think the blue screen was a problem for him, he performs his action scenes well, they're not perfect (some of his saber slashes look a bit odd, especially in the droid foundry) but he is ok. My main concern is his emotion and his delivery of lines and most of the time that's with other human's.

    However, i do think he did a good job despite his flaws and some of the really bad bits of his performance were down to bad scripting and i'd imagine bad direction. I say they get Kasdan and Kershner to do the next one!
  16. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    Yes Kershner I am sure would make a great job of it :)

    On the point of the deleted scenes with Padme's family there were some telling moments. It is the ordinariness of the setting, which I think made it work. And that moment as Padme looks out into the garden and her father and Anakin are walking together. That is such a perfectly natural moment and reflects on the normality of Anakin/Padme's relationship against a galaxy that is in upheavel and change.

    I do think that the scenes do much more to explain Padme and her motivations. It also makes her otherwise cold perfomance, easier to understand. You see that she is not someone who opens up her heart, even in the presence of those that she loves dearly. I think they were important scenes, which would have added much more to Padme's character.
  17. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    to me the scene in her room portrayed someone who is really compassionate yet in the rest of the saga she hasn't seemed very emotional at all. she doesn't seem to empathise with the people she is helping because of Portman's wooden acting. to me, it comes across like celebrities doing charity work so they look good in the public eye rather than caring, she is meant to care but i don't believe it.

    I agree with your point about Anakin and her Dad (or miscellaneous male relative who i think is her dad but i'm not sure) but i think it should have been taken further to warrant being left in. it seemed to me that the writers were trying to show a closeknit family and the other family members seemed close and but because of Natalie's acting it didn't seem like Padme fitted in so the scene was pointless
  18. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    I think you have point Stuey :) Most of the problems with the Anakin/Padme stuff fall down on the poor acting by Portman.

    I've heard ppl defend her by saying that was probably the way Lucas wanted her to play the part. To me though she comes across as too cold and emotionless. There should at least have been some spark or levity in her character.

  19. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    To me though she comes across as too cold and emotionless

    I will defend this because she plays it like this as she is fighting her feelings for Anakin til she confesses near the end of the film. Jus my opinion.
  20. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    Cold and emotionless yes, but GL wouldn't have wanted her to be wooden and barely responsive :p

    I though Hayden was ok in the scenes with Padme because he appeared to be struggling with emotion because of who he is, but she was just wooden, he might as well have been falling in love with a mahogany table.

    However, his acting in the scenes with Obi-Wan didn't feel like father and son, and i think this was a combination of Hayden's inexperience and script writing and direction. The speeder scene must have been really badly directed (it's definitely badly written :p) because even the almighty Ewan was crap in that scene!

    BTW Ewan Macgregor is God [face_laugh]
  21. Turr_Phennir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2000
    star 4
    he might as well have been falling in love with a mahogany table.

    [face_laugh]

    I couldn't have put it better myself :)
  22. Sebulba_Sloan RSA Alumni

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2002
    star 4
  23. TK_Four_Two_One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 2002
    star 5
    *comes in and does one fingered salute to all who thought Natalie Portman was wooden... though she gives me a woo... ah forget it* :p
  24. Stuey Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 5
    [face_laugh]

    there were some good 'attributes' of her performance :p
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